UK General Election 2015

[ripple11]

I imagine that of that 17% voting for UKIP, they'll lose about half due to our FPTP system.  The potential UKIP voters will picture Miliband's face in the voting box, and grudgingly put a cross next the the Tory.

Tooooo much coverage of Miliband jr potential going............the Tories will be getting worried.

[TightEnd]

The Ipsos-MORI monthly poll has the worst figures for LAB of any since 2010

Click to see full-size image.

Click to see full-size image.

Nigel Farage: I'd do a deal with Labour

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/11/nigel-farage-id-do-deal-labour

[AndrewT]

All that is a bit of an irrelevance right now - Tories could be (I think) 6% ahead in the polls and still not win the most seats. Also, the landscape is about to be shaped by what happens in Rochester and everyone will kinda forget Labour exist for a while as it all becomes about UKIP/Tories.

[DungBeetle]

True - but it's about trends.  Labour was ahead by double digits 2 years ago, but it's just got steadily worse for Miliband.  I know they have to win by 6%, but Tories surely rather be 3% ahead than 3% behind at the moment!

[Woodsey]

Sounds good 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30224493

[redarmi]

Sounds good 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30224493

Actually agree with you for once.  Of the policy changes Cameron announced this morning the only one I think is inherently unfair (and probably because it is something that has impacted my own life in a devastating fashion) is restricting the right of migrants to bring non EU family members to the UK.  The rest of it just seems to be common sense and some of it just makes you wonder how it was ever allowed in the first place.  All that said I don't see how it helps the Tories electorally because actually the number of people that are taking advantage of most of this stuff is actually tiny it is just the perception of it that is the issue and that isn't about to change and I don't really see how this will bring down the net migration figures to the levels that Cameron needs for the issue to go away for him.

[Woodsey]

Sounds good 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30224493

Actually agree with you for once.  Of the policy changes Cameron announced this morning the only one I think is inherently unfair (and probably because it is something that has impacted my own life in a devastating fashion) is restricting the right of migrants to bring non EU family members to the UK.  The rest of it just seems to be common sense and some of it just makes you wonder how it was ever allowed in the first place.  All that said I don't see how it helps the Tories electorally because actually the number of people that are taking advantage of most of this stuff is actually tiny it is just the perception of it that is the issue and that isn't about to change and I don't really see how this will bring down the net migration figures to the levels that Cameron needs for the issue to go away for him.

If I could add one thing to it I would be a happy bunny.

British people should where reasonably possible be given preference for jobs. We have too many brits sitting on the dole that either can't get a job because of competition from EU migrants or are just lazy fucks that need a kick up the arse as they have it too good on the dole. That is where the biggest cost saving is anyway, but it's all part of the same intertwined argument anyway. I know how easy it is to get a min wage job here in Nottingham, people should be forced to take those jobs or lose benefits. Once that has happened I really don't care how many immigrants we get in to plug the gaps as well as taking on the skilled people that are clearly a benefit to us.

Are you not a Brit or summat mate?

[redarmi]

Sounds good 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30224493

Actually agree with you for once.  Of the policy changes Cameron announced this morning the only one I think is inherently unfair (and probably because it is something that has impacted my own life in a devastating fashion) is restricting the right of migrants to bring non EU family members to the UK.  The rest of it just seems to be common sense and some of it just makes you wonder how it was ever allowed in the first place.  All that said I don't see how it helps the Tories electorally because actually the number of people that are taking advantage of most of this stuff is actually tiny it is just the perception of it that is the issue and that isn't about to change and I don't really see how this will bring down the net migration figures to the levels that Cameron needs for the issue to go away for him.

If I could add one thing to it I would be a happy bunny.

British people should where reasonably possible be given preference for jobs. We have too many brits sitting on the dole that either can't get a job because of competition from EU migrants or are just lazy fucks that need a kick up the arse as they have it too good on the dole. That is where the biggest cost saving is anyway, but it's all part of the same intertwined argument anyway. I know how easy it is to get a min wage job here in Nottingham, people should be forced to take those jobs or lose benefits. Once that has happened I really don't care how many immigrants we get in to plug the gaps as well as taking on the skilled people that are clearly a benefit to us.

Are you not a Brit or summat mate?

Think the problem with that is that actually the message that they are sending is that migrants have to do everything possible to get a job now or be sent home after 6 months.  I can only see that actually driving down wages and making it harder for Brits to get off benefits.  Tend to think that the problem of Brits living on benefits is a slightly different issue and immigration is just a lazy way for lazy people to justify their lack of desire to actually work and support themselves.  I am not sure that even if net migration was neutral it would really make any difference to those people.

On me.  I am British but my wife and daughter aren't.  Immigration rules (in the States not here) have kept us apart for large parts of the year.  I don't really see how that helps anyone.  It will be sorted soon but I can't deny it has made me look at the whole issue very differently and as not as clear cut as they might first seem.

[Woodsey]

Yeah, immigration in the US is pretty tough for sure, but on the other hand ours is too soft imo, I think a happy medium would be more sensible all round.

Here's a funny story for ya, I once got booted out of the U.S. for massively overstaying   

[Doobs]

Yeah, immigration in the US is pretty tough for sure, but on the other hand ours is too soft imo, I think a happy medium would be more sensible all round.

Here's a funny story for ya, I once got booted out of the U.S. for massively overstaying   

You want a happy medium between us and the US now? Why not go the whole hog and try and match Australia's immigrant population? 

[Woodsey]

Yeah, immigration in the US is pretty tough for sure, but on the other hand ours is too soft imo, I think a happy medium would be more sensible all round.

Here's a funny story for ya, I once got booted out of the U.S. for massively overstaying    

You want a happy medium between us and the US now? Why not go the whole hog and try and match Australia's immigrant population?  

I would be very happy with their current entry system mate, selective immigration based on needs, perfect. Of course we have the complication of the EU making that impossible while we are still members.

[Doobs]

Yeah, immigration in the US is pretty tough for sure, but on the other hand ours is too soft imo, I think a happy medium would be more sensible all round.

Here's a funny story for ya, I once got booted out of the U.S. for massively overstaying    

You want a happy medium between us and the US now? Why not go the whole hog and try and match Australia's immigrant population?  

I would be very happy with their current entry system mate, selective immigration based on needs, perfect.

Our needs or what some civil servant thinks are our needs? 

Australian immigration > US immigration > UK immigration.

[Woodsey]

Yeah, immigration in the US is pretty tough for sure, but on the other hand ours is too soft imo, I think a happy medium would be more sensible all round.

Here's a funny story for ya, I once got booted out of the U.S. for massively overstaying    

You want a happy medium between us and the US now? Why not go the whole hog and try and match Australia's immigrant population?  

I would be very happy with their current entry system mate, selective immigration based on needs, perfect.

Our needs or what some civil servant thinks are our needs?  

Australian immigration > US immigration > UK immigration.

What I think would be best lol. US immigration is very tough, way tougher than ours, so anyone who has a left leaning philosophy should prefer ours by an absolute mile. Aus immigration ftw.

[redarmi]

Yeah, immigration in the US is pretty tough for sure, but on the other hand ours is too soft imo, I think a happy medium would be more sensible all round.

Here's a funny story for ya, I once got booted out of the U.S. for massively overstaying   

Actually one of the reasons we decided to live in the US was because of how difficult it was when we weren't married to get a stay here for my partner.  I got held by US immigration for a very minor, and completely accidental overstay (about 5 days and actually more their fault than mine...its a long story) for about 13 hours the next time I tried to enter.  It was about 6 weeks after my daughter had been born and I had just put all of my life savings into a house we had bought there.  I just can't describe how devastating it is to be in that position and be told you are going to get deported and hit with a long ban. Now immigration queues and in particular secondary immigration areas now literally scare the shit out of me because of the power that they have to take almost everything that is valuable away from me and that gives me a lot of sympathy for migrants that come here and elsewhere.  Obviously I understand that there are different types of migrant and the rules are there for a reason but this stuff breaks up families and it isn't always fair.

[redarmi]

Yeah, immigration in the US is pretty tough for sure, but on the other hand ours is too soft imo, I think a happy medium would be more sensible all round.

Here's a funny story for ya, I once got booted out of the U.S. for massively overstaying    

You want a happy medium between us and the US now? Why not go the whole hog and try and match Australia's immigrant population?  

I would be very happy with their current entry system mate, selective immigration based on needs, perfect.

Our needs or what some civil servant thinks are our needs?  

Australian immigration > US immigration > UK immigration.

What I think would be best lol. US immigration is very tough, way tougher than ours, so anyone who has a left leaning philosophy should prefer ours by an absolute mile. Aus immigration ftw.

Problem is that we aren't comparing apples with apples.  For a non EU immigrant to come to the US is very similar rules to a non US person to go to the States (actually it is probably marginally more difficult to come to the UK than go to the States if you are non EU).  The real issue is with EU migration here and that is a part of a much bigger conversation about whether we want to be a part of a common market etc.  You can't have the benefits of a common market realistically without free movement of labour etc and Merkel was very quick today to make Cameron back up a bit on some of that stuff.