UK General Election 2015

[DungBeetle]

I agree with a lot of what mulhuzz said earlier.  I don't think I've seen a good debate on immigration where facts and economics are the driving force of the debate.  It always descends into anger or finger pointing on both sides.

[mulhuzz]

you have to accept that Migration Watch are a thoroughly terrible primary source of data first though, because otherwise anything I show you will just be 'ah, fucking leftie bollocks, MigrationWatch is better' or whatever.

if you can't accept on its own merit that MW is a terrible source then it's absolutely pointless, might as well just continue believing they are the bestest.

Ok fine, show me a source you accept.

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings

http://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/

Ok hands up, I made a mistake it was migration observatory I meant to link before, that was the site I was thinking of.

They come up with about the same figures though, about 55% want immigration reduced a lot, 20% a little.

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/migobs/Public%20Opinion-Overall%20Attitudes%20and%20Level%20of%20Concern.pdf

Yeah it's no doubt that's the prevailing opinion.

But when you ask people 'what's the level of net migration' or 'what percentage of the country are immigrants' you consistenly get massive overstatements of the actual facts, so that's no a surprise.

It's a real issue that something like 85% of people have an opinion on immigration but with no idea of the facts. I think if you want to have a serious discussion about immigration you need to do three things:

1. educate people and not let the daily mail or express be their guide
2. split out EU and non-EU immigration as two different issues.
3. remove any notion of nationalism, jingoism or race. Immigration should properly be considered as an economic benefit and resource allocation problem.

I've talked a fair bit in this thread about how tragic it is that people think you run a country's budget like a household budget and i think the 'knowledge gap' or variance beween perception and reality is even higher when it comes to immigration. Reminds me a bit of this:

[Woodsey]

I agree with a lot of what mulhuzz said earlier.  I don't think I've seen a good debate on immigration where facts and economics are the driving force of the debate.  It always descends into anger or finger pointing on both sides.

Well my original point for raising immigration is there was the question about what % of people in the UK are racist. I've heard said on here many, many times in the past that you are basically racist if you want tighter immigration. Going by the articles above the majority of people in the UK are racist, which is obviously a ridiculous figure and clearly not true.

I am merely trying to seperate the issue of wanting more immigration controls and being racist. Because every time this discussion comes up people who want more immigration controls get accused of being racist and that is wrong.

[DaveShoelace]

I agree with a lot of what mulhuzz said earlier.  I don't think I've seen a good debate on immigration where facts and economics are the driving force of the debate.  It always descends into anger or finger pointing on both sides.

Well my original point for raising immigration is there was the question about what % of people in the UK are racist. I've heard said on here many, many times in the past that you are basically racist if you want tighter immigration. Going by the articles above the majority of people in the UK are racist, which is obviously a ridiculous figure and clearly not true.

I am merely trying to seperate the issue of wanting more immigration controls and being racist. Because every time this discussion comes up people who want more immigration controls get accused of being racist and that is wrong.

I've genuinely never considered UKIP racist because they want tighter border controls. It has 100% been because of the overwhelming amount of bigoted things UKIP candidates have said in public over the last few years.

I don't think it is racist to want tighter immigration. It's just often immigration is an issue that exposes those that are racist.

[Kmac84]

I wonder when Chuka wrote this? 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/labours-first-step-to-regaining-power-is-to-recognise-the-mistakes-we-made

[taximan007]

I love the fact that foreigners are allowed to come and live in our country 👍 😉

[Kmac84]

So Jumbojimbly getting heckled in Glasgow last week constituted a riot and was wall to wall on the BBC but absolutely nothing about what was happening in London today.  #BBCNationalDisgrace

[Woodsey]

So Jumbojimbly getting heckled in Glasgow last week constituted a riot and was wall to wall on the BBC but absolutely nothing about what was happening in London today.  #BBCNationalDisgrace

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32678518

[teddybloat]

I don't agree with UKIP but saying a party getting 12 percent of the vote is rejected and swept aside is ludicrous  If we had PR they would have 80 MPs.  Let's be realistic.

we dont have PR though.

for all the bluster, press sponsorship and claims of launching a political tornado, they limped in with one MP.

all in a political cycle where the 3 main parties were never weaker.

they hoped immigration was the biggest concern of the people.

turns out it wasnt.

the SNP have shown how to speak to people about political independence. you do it by selling hope and not fear.

i would have voted ukip if they were a single issue party that merely campaigned to get us out of europe. gladly. nothing against them or their goals, quite the opposite.

their message and other policies were way off base.

[Kmac84]

So Michael Gove is to be the new Justice Secretary . . . . .

[scotty77]

I think if people knew that the Conservatives would smash it then UKIP would have got a few more seats.  They weren't that far off in some areas. 

But it looked like every Conservative and Labour seat mattered.

[scotty77]

A mix of some LOL and utterly disgusting things here.  They just don't get that stuff like this totally turns off the average voter from them.  Just look like pathetic animals who have zero self awareness.

https://www.change.org/p/david-axelrod-do-the-decent-thing-and-repay-the-labour-party-your-300-000-fee?recruiter=293219245&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

Click to see full-size image.

Click to see full-size image.

[The Camel]

I think if people knew that the Conservatives would smash it then UKIP would have got a few more seats.  They weren't that far off in some areas. 

But it looked like every Conservative and Labour seat mattered.

Conservatives didn't "smash it"

They have a wafer thin majority.

1997 election was the last time a party "smashed it".

[scotty77]

I think if people knew that the Conservatives would smash it then UKIP would have got a few more seats.  They weren't that far off in some areas. 

But it looked like every Conservative and Labour seat mattered.

Conservatives didn't "smash it"

They have a wafer thin majority.

1997 election was the last time a party "smashed it".

I meant smash it in terms of how close it was before the election.  It seemed that max everyone was talking about was 280.

[teddybloat]

cameron will do well to see out his full term

the issue of europe looms large

there are already a cabal of back bench groups that dislike the man and politicians are selfish and ego driven enough to force a minority government if it suits their aims / personal vendettas

the snp have a block voting group that could force him to make some unpopular comprimises

all the while boris is in da house, innit.

gl sir.