My name's Alex and I'd like to learn PLO

[Oxford_HRV]

i'd likely be folding both pre 6max<

hand 2, villain likely has AA and can be bluffing the blocker the times he has it? c/f it though 5 way

[pleno1]

why is he "likely" it seems more "likely" to me that he has axcc

[Oxford_HRV]

why is he "likely" it seems more "likely" to me that he has axcc

he's 60/70 in the sb and wants to raise into atleast 5 other players. obvs it is very likely he has AAxxcc and Axcc aswell but when he has the naked ace he would be inclined to bluff it when he sees this flop as villain should think hero will be bet folding

[GreekStein]

Kq88 really strong enough given action?

When everyone flicks in a fiver then someone makes it 25 and every flicks that in too, you sorta gotta come along for the ride surely?

i'd just bin it pre tbh

[cambridgealex]

Sounds like I need to tighten up pre. The thing is, I already am by far the tightest player at the table! Feel like my vpip is <10% even with playing these types of hands!

Obviously I have no idea about where this hand fits into the range, maybe I've just been really card dead. What sort of vpip should you be having in 9 handed full ring? I know you have to be really tight and just nut peddle basically.

I did a big hero call and a big bluff last night that I was quite happy with. I'll share both with you when I get a second to post and hope my thought processes don't get shot down in flames!

[GreekStein]

People defend too wide multiway in PLO and not enough heads up. I watched a video recently where Galfond talks about this and I feel it applies pretty well to this hand. (the KQ88)

Multiway the KQ part of our hand gets dominated usually, we flop only gutters and open enders rather than wraps which are usually draws we can't continue with. We can't really call happily when the flop comes two low clubs etc. We get oversetted more often than we set over set someone.

Basically just doesn't play very well. 88910 is far better

[simonnatur]

I'm very unqualified to recommend as I play very little, but I found Limon from 2+2 in this podcast http://pokercast.twoplustwo.com/pokercast.php?pokercast=331 quite interesting on some PLO concepts specific to live cash games. He's a long standing PLO cash player in LA cardrooms and if nothing else entertaining - worth a listen on the way to the casino I think.

[Skippy]

Multiway the KQ part of our hand gets dominated usually, we flop only gutters and open enders rather than wraps which are usually draws we can't continue with. We can't really call happily when the flop comes two low clubs etc. We get oversetted more often than we set over set someone.

What does dominated mean in the context of PLO? I know what it means in Hold'em. Do you mean that with your KQ, someone is bound to have AQxx and someone else is bound to have AKxx so you are struggling?

[Oxford_HRV]

Multiway the KQ part of our hand gets dominated usually, we flop only gutters and open enders rather than wraps which are usually draws we can't continue with. We can't really call happily when the flop comes two low clubs etc. We get oversetted more often than we set over set someone.

What does dominated mean in the context of PLO? I know what it means in Hold'em. Do you mean that with your KQ, someone is bound to have AQxx and someone else is bound to have AKxx so you are struggling?

yeah same thing

[cambridgealex]

So the two hands I mentioned earlier.

Hand 1 , another multiway limped pot with LP raise to 25 called by 4 people. I am MP. My table image was extremely tight, I'd played almost no hands for about 2 hours.

, EP checks, I checked, three players behind checks. I thought if I donk bet here, it would be so obvious what I had given I had been so tight. Maybe that's not a good enough reason, as my hand is still so vulnerable? But is it even strong enough to bet?

Checks round to button who now bets 105 into 130. Fold, I call, everyone else folds. Should've bet here again? Again, unsure if my hand strong enough, 5 ways.

I check, he bets 300. He's Norwegian, just moved to Barcelona to play these games for a living I overheard.

What's he representing here? A9 bets the flop most of the time last to act no? as does QQ? He wasn't the PFR so didn't think he had AAxx on the button. Does a bare Axxx bet the turn, and does it bomb the river like this? I didn't think so, so called. Thoughts?

Hand 2

Another hour or two passes by without me playing a hand, and the game is now 5/10. I'm shortstacking with about 700.

There is a limp and an open to 40 from MP2, and I am CO or HJ with and decided to 3bet to 140.  I had barely played a hand all night let alone 3bet so I thought everyone will put me on AAxx. My hand is really sexy anyway, obviously I'm not expecting to take it down pre, but I thought postflop if we are HU I will be able to bet most boards and likely to take it down. I wouldn't be betting a board like KQ9, but would be betting most boards. Everyone folds bar the original raiser who calls.

He checks, I bet 150, with 420 back. He calls.

He checks, I jam 420. Now I have picked up a pair (especially this pair which doesn't add any draws) I felt this was a mandatory jam, he would fold a hand like KQJT and also have to fold a FD or SD. Thoughts?

[SuuPRlim]

Hello Alex!!

In your initial hands, hand #1 KK74r I would open the CO, as you did, I'd fold to any proper 3bet from the btn but as he's raised 3euro's I'd call, our hand is very bad ofc but for 3 more we should see if we can hit a king.

Otf 259r I would c/f we have no relevant blockers aside from a 7, we dont have the so only 1 good turn card for us and if he has absolutely nothing here he'll still prolly have enough to turn a little equity and bet the turn again (forcing us to fold) I realise he#s bet quite small but we really can't do anything with this hand, OOP.

Having called the flop, which I wouldn't have done, I would prolly lead the turn now, as that's the 2nd best card in the deck for us and we block/rep a straight very well imo.

On the river yes I'd check - you could strongly consider a value bet since the flops FD has bricked, but i think youll most likely value cut yourself vs AA and really QQ or JJ is the only hand we'll ever get called by. You prolly win now, but yeh fold the flop 100%.

in the second of your original hands the KK92r in the SB i'd fold irrespective of the opener or the BB, this is a terrible hand, truly very poor, if there was another caller I'd flick it in as you'll be reasonably likely to go 4 way then.

The first live 5/5 hand - 5678 you limped preflop with this? Not so sure I'm a fan can't see any real reason not to open, flop you have to c/f you have no blockers and >5% equity vs any hand for value. There is a chance that it checks through to showdown in which case you'll v likely win. One huge factor to live PLO games is staying well clear of marginal hands in multi-way pots.

I agree to folding pre-flop with the KQ88, although I think throwing a 5 in is not too bad but technically folding best for sure, I would not bet this flop I'd c/call and then prolly c/f to the next bullet. As played I'd fold now fopr sure - yeh there is a chance he's bluffing but a lot of the time he won't be so you must give him the pot, unless you have some sort of ninja read?

KT98 hand where we flop three nines, I would prefer to bet the flop in a live game, people are generally weaker and call a bit overly wide here, KK, AQ etc and ofc worse nines are possible, if you get c/r OTF i'd fold as stnd without a read. The one good thing about checking though is that all your FH cards make straights so there is some value there. As played I would call the turn, and fold the river - is ost likely hand that would stab the turn and bluff the river is a lone Ace, which you now lose to, I don't think he would bluff an Ace on this river and I think it's very likely he has AQ, or maybe AA. KQJ* with spades is prolly his most likely bluffing hand by the river but I dunno why he would not bluff the flop with a Q, but the turn, where he's now quite likely to be called. Defo fold.

789T hand, I like it. WP. He will prolly not fold a K but I dont think he has a K as he'd be likely to just go AI otf with his K, he might fold though, and if he does call you can still have a chance to win as K3/K2/K8 all unlikely, if he had a weakish flop draw then yes he'd prolly fold now.

[SuuPRlim]

"danger awareness" as I like to consider it in PLO is very important, especially in live games, boards chance all the time, you're often handcuffed by your hand and very medicocre players can put you in horrible situations, if you allow them to.

Bad unsuited cards, playing too splashy preflop, being OOP and lose flop calls are usually where the danger begins. So be on guard.

[pleno1]

So the two hands I mentioned earlier.

Hand 1 , another multiway limped pot with LP raise to 25 called by 4 people. I am MP. My table image was extremely tight, I'd played almost no hands for about 2 hours.

, EP checks, I checked, three players behind checks. I thought if I donk bet here, it would be so obvious what I had given I had been so tight. Maybe that's not a good enough reason, as my hand is still so vulnerable? But is it even strong enough to bet?

Checks round to button who now bets 105 into 130. Fold, I call, everyone else folds. Should've bet here again? Again, unsure if my hand strong enough, 5 ways.

I check, he bets 300. He's Norwegian, just moved to Barcelona to play these games for a living I overheard.

What's he representing here? A9 bets the flop most of the time last to act no? as does QQ? He wasn't the PFR so didn't think he had AAxx on the button. Does a bare Axxx bet the turn, and does it bomb the river like this? I didn't think so, so called. Thoughts?

Hand 2

Another hour or two passes by without me playing a hand, and the game is now 5/10. I'm shortstacking with about 700.

There is a limp and an open to 40 from MP2, and I am CO or HJ with and decided to 3bet to 140.  I had barely played a hand all night let alone 3bet so I thought everyone will put me on AAxx. My hand is really sexy anyway, obviously I'm not expecting to take it down pre, but I thought postflop if we are HU I will be able to bet most boards and likely to take it down. I wouldn't be betting a board like KQ9, but would be betting most boards. Everyone folds bar the original raiser who calls.

He checks, I bet 150, with 420 back. He calls.

He checks, I jam 420. Now I have picked up a pair (especially this pair which doesn't add any draws) I felt this was a mandatory jam, he would fold a hand like KQJT and also have to fold a FD or SD. Thoughts?

what do you think your range looks like in hand 1 on the river? is this the very worst hand in your range? both perceived and actual?

[cambridgealex]

maybe he thinks I can have any combo of wraps+fds? Probs not tho, but even if it was the worst hand in my range, i'd reasonably happy be making an exploitative adjustment - that'll he thinks he can get me to fold 9x here.

Obviously not happy with this hand from a GTO perspective, but the same can be said for 99% of my lifetime hands in live poker...

[cambridgealex]

Thanks Dave, taken all those comments on board.

About the 99QAA board, why would he feel the need to bluff the lone Ace on the river? And if he was betting it for value, does he expect me to call (he bet big) with worse? My assumption was that he wouldn't bet Axxx in this spot, either as a bluff or for value, so discounted it heavily. Was that foolish?