The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[MintTrav]

We're not saying that Russia didn't do it, just that we cannot be sure.

You are saying they definitely did, without evidence.

Seems to me that people having certainty in their views, without evidence, has led to a lot of the world's problems.

[TightEnd]

 Joint statement from the leaders of France🇫🇷, Germany🇩🇪, the United States🇺🇸 & the United Kingdom🇬🇧 on attack in Salisbury

[titaniumbean]

We're not saying that Russia didn't do it, just that we cannot be sure.

You are saying they definitely did, without evidence.

Seems to me that people having certainty in their views, without evidence, has led to a lot of the world's problems.

you cannot be certain about alot of things.

my whole point was that your or my or mr randoms opinion should hold very little water compared to those that actually see what evidence there is. much of which can never be shared as is the nature with things.


which going back to my point about Bush/Blair/Trump shitting on everything by runing credibility puts us in these stupid situations where people are quicker to believe people who want things that are negative for us as opposed to people with our best interests (lol) in mind.

[MintTrav]

May's response is to talk tough and free up a few VIP seats at the football. Is that sufficient if we are sure they have endangered British lives? Or is she not so sure as she makes out? Or does it all not matter much?

As you are certain Russia is guilty, what do you think we should do about it?

[titaniumbean]

May's response is to talk tough and free up a few VIP seats at the football. Is that sufficient if we are sure they have endangered British lives? Or is she not so sure as she makes out? Or does it all not matter much?

As you are certain Russia is guilty, what do you think we should do about it?

net I didn't say they were. I said what would it take for you to believe.... you've never answerd that bit. Assume for a minute that we have some kind of report from some kind of unheard of QC who comes out and says as close as can know and all the main countries in the world agree with our report it was them 99.9%. Do you believe it? do you need to see their working? do we have gary down the pub critiquing their testing methods using his absolute lack of knowledge of the subject?


May clearly is utterly weak, has no backup, Europe didn't stand straight by her, Trump hasn't said anything and only Rex after he was going to be fired said anything. NATO haven't stood up. There is nothing we can do and that is literally the point of doing something so utterly extreme, it highlights the divisions and weakness. We refused to do basically anything susbstantive after Litvinenko, we didn't do anything for the multiple other people that we know have been assasinated on British soil because of in general money.

Where do you think the bulk of the Russian nations pilfered wealth is going. laundered money has to go somewhere, and as the city of london is numero uno at that where do you think the money went?

if we were to do anything then clearly war wouldn't be particularly fun. pushing monetary reactions would have the most effect but city of london wont make collosal profits so we aren't allowed and they fund the tories.

gg our options. wp whoever did it 

[PokerBroker]

It’s nit just  Bush/Blair/Trump that is pure recency bias.

The problem for me is the narcissistic and sociopaths of the centre right thinking they know everything.

I mean can anyone say they fully trust MI5/MI6?

Russia might have done this, nobody knows but pissing them off isn’t the right way to go about resolving a diplomatic dispute of that I am 100% sure.

[MANTIS01]

May's response is to talk tough and free up a few VIP seats at the football. Is that sufficient if we are sure they have endangered British lives? Or is she not so sure as she makes out? Or does it all not matter much?

As you are certain Russia is guilty, what do you think we should do about it?

It's not nearly enough. But what CAN we do? Calling for unity of opposition in the free world is about all and that is happening as above.

Whenever Jez Corbyn is confronted by such situations he says "we should get round a table". In this latest episode he said "we should get round a table" with Putin. Let me tell you Jeremy if you ever enter the big boy's playground of global politics and ask Putin to "get round a table" he would tell you to fuck off. Now what? In fact he would probably laugh and say he doesn't have any spare change for a Big Issue and then tell you to fuck off.

[titaniumbean]

It’s nit just  Bush/Blair/Trump that is pure recency bias.

The problem for me is the narcissistic and sociopaths of the centre right thinking they know everything.

I mean can anyone say they fully trust MI5/MI6?

Russia might have done this, nobody knows but pissing them off isn’t the right way to go about resolving a diplomatic dispute of that I am 100% sure.

agreed with 1 if you remove the whichever side. problematic figures on all parts of the political spectrum.

surely you would trust the intelligence services conclusions more of your home nation vs those of a foreign nation?

and there are people who know lol. the people who did it and the people who ordered it know for sure, potentially the people it happened to....  this also isn't a diplomatic dispute, it's a murder using a military grade nerve agent.

[kukushkin88]

May's response is to talk tough and free up a few VIP seats at the football. Is that sufficient if we are sure they have endangered British lives? Or is she not so sure as she makes out? Or does it all not matter much?

As you are certain Russia is guilty, what do you think we should do about it?

It's not nearly enough. But what CAN we do? Calling for unity of opposition in the free world is about all and that is happening as above.

Whenever Jez Corbyn is confronted by such situations he says "we should get round a table". In this latest episode he said "we should get round a table" with Putin. Let me tell you Jeremy if you ever enter the big boy's playground of global politics and ask Putin to "get round a table" he would tell you to fuck off. Now what? In fact he would probably laugh and say he doesn't have any spare change for a Big Issue and then tell you to fuck off.

He already has laughed and told May/Britain to fuck off. Let's go back to the Iraq war, it's different of course but basically the closest thing we have for comparison. Google Tony Benn, Iraq war. Who had the better idea, Blair or Benn?

[kukushkin88]

May's response is to talk tough and free up a few VIP seats at the football. Is that sufficient if we are sure they have endangered British lives? Or is she not so sure as she makes out? Or does it all not matter much?

As you are certain Russia is guilty, what do you think we should do about it?

It's not nearly enough. But what CAN we do? Calling for unity of opposition in the free world is about all and that is happening as above.

Whenever Jez Corbyn is confronted by such situations he says "we should get round a table". In this latest episode he said "we should get round a table" with Putin. Let me tell you Jeremy if you ever enter the big boy's playground of global politics and ask Putin to "get round a table" he would tell you to fuck off. Now what? In fact he would probably laugh and say he doesn't have any spare change for a Big Issue and then tell you to fuck off.

He already has laughed and told May/Britain to fuck off. Let's go back to the Iraq war, it's different of course but basically the closest thing we have for comparison. Google Tony Benn, Iraq war. Who had the better idea, Blair or Benn?

Maybe try and think of the opposites of evidence based, proportionate and decisive? That might help.

[MANTIS01]

Looking back in hindsight the Iraq war appears to be a rank bad decision. Then again I don't pretend to know what our objectives were. I don't really swallow that it was to save the people or that London could be bombed by people with their face on a playing card. Maybe it had a lot to do with controlling global revenue, oil or even just to support USA. Who really knows for sure?

These things are so complex. But let's say we didn't support USA back then, would Nikki Haley have delivered impressive backing for our country here? Even Trump said with conviction that USA would always stand beside us. Or would they be sitting over the other side of the room looking the other way? Let's say Putin dips his toe into stepping on our throat and we don't have that backing? What happens next? Google Neville Chamberlain and "sitting round a table".

I don't know the magic formula for dealing with a dictator but it isn't standing up in a shitty creased geography teacher suit dribbling on about budget cuts and "getting round a table"

[TightEnd]

Sky Data ("Do you think [leader] is doing a good or bad job dealing with UK relations with Russia?", %)

Theresa May:
GOOD 61
BAD 29

Jeremy Corbyn:
GOOD 18
BAD 57

Fieldwork 15th March
N=1,166

Tabs: https://interactive.news.sky.com/RUSSIATABS150318v3.pdf …

[RED-DOG]

Does this work, or is it too obscure?



Cook garlic and butter in a heavy saucepan over moderately low heat, stirring until garlic turns pale gold. (about 2 minutes)
Add peas, water, thyme and simmer uncovered, stirring occasionally until liquid is evaporated and peas are tender, (8 to 10 minutes) Stir in salt and season with pepper.

[kukushkin88]

Looking back in hindsight the Iraq war appears to be a rank bad decision. Then again I don't pretend to know what our objectives were. I don't really swallow that it was to save the people or that London could be bombed by people with their face on a playing card. Maybe it had a lot to do with controlling global revenue, oil or even just to support USA. Who really knows for sure?

These things are so complex. But let's say we didn't support USA back then, would Nikki Haley have delivered impressive backing for our country here? Even Trump said with conviction that USA would always stand beside us. Or would they be sitting over the other side of the room looking the other way? Let's say Putin dips his toe into stepping on our throat and we don't have that backing? What happens next? Google Neville Chamberlain and "sitting round a table".

I don't know the magic formula for dealing with a dictator but it isn't standing up in a shitty creased geography teacher suit dribbling on about budget cuts and "getting round a table"

Seems early in the discussion to be bringing up Hitler.

Your views on Corbyn might look a little better without the abuse. It makes you sound like you learnt everything you know from the first three pages of The Sun and the front page of The Mail. I used to agree regarding the US relationship, it's even more important now due to Brexit, Trump is a big problem though.

[MANTIS01]

It's not abuse darling, it's just jokes. Like Billy Connolly. You snowflake?