The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[PokerBroker]

I see that former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan Colin Murray has floated the idea that Israel might be behind this attack in Salisbury.

It's not so far fetched when you read his reasoning and coming on the back of the Saudi's visit to the UK. 

The Blairites and Labour Friends for Israel pretty keen to crush this story. 

I'm with Corbyn and France on this, I'd want to see solid evidence that this was Russia before I started poking Putin. 

There seems to be a typical little Britain mentality being displayed by politicians across the spectrum. 

We should wait for hard evidence on this....but you never know it might have been Israel because Tony Blair.

I know I'm straw manning you a bit there, just couldn't resist.

I'm not saying that it is Israel but has it been considered? 

It seems there were too many people to quick to blame the Russians.  If there was one country I would at all costs trying to toe to toe with its Russia.  What do they gain with this attack?

UK security services on the other hand, they wouldn't have anything to gain would they.

[Longines]

What do they gain with this attack?

Comrade, if you think the state pay is a bit shit and defecting seems like a good idea, just remember that eventually we will kill you and all of your immediate family. Spy swaps etc., we don't give a shit. And just in case a car accident or botched robbery doesn't get enough publicity for you to notice, we'll take you out with polonium or fricking nerve agents.

Now, shall we move on to the rest of your appraisal?

[RickBFA]

I think Putin views it as a badge of honour. He doesn’t give a flying fuck about international opinion. It plays well in Russia. As some one said on FiveLive, majority of Russians will be proud of it.

EDIT : Pokerbroker, Putin gains because his image in Russia as defending them and being a “strong” leader goes up.

[Jon MW]

What do they gain with this attack?

Comrade, if you think the state pay is a bit shit and defecting seems like a good idea, just remember that eventually we will kill you and all of your immediate family. Spy swaps etc., we don't give a shit. And just in case a car accident or botched robbery doesn't get enough publicity for you to notice, we'll take you out with polonium or fricking nerve agents.

Now, shall we move on to the rest of your appraisal?

It's a Russian nerve agent, and Russia have done it before - I think it's true that it should all be largely dealt with by diplomats and the professionals (obviously that doesn't include politicians) and that there's a reasonable chance that someone else might be behind it - but you'd have to assume Russia are super hot favourites.

[MintTrav]

What do they gain with this attack?

It's a Russian nerve agent, and Russia have done it before - I think it's true that it should all be largely dealt with by diplomats and the professionals (obviously that doesn't include politicians) and that there's a reasonable chance that someone else might be behind it - but you'd have to assume Russia are super hot favourites.

Favourites, yes, but not definites. This stuff was developed before the USSR breakup, so the developers could have included scientists from other Soviet republics, who had enough knowledge to reproduce it later. I haven't heard any claims that this has happened, but it could.

I am also a bit mystified as to why the 'Russians' have been so inefficient that they failed to kill them with one of the most lethal poisons in the world.

[MANTIS01]

Yesterday showed yet again what a prize plum Corbyn is. Thoroughly unsuitable for PM. Carry on as Labour leader for as long as you like Jeremy, I'm your biggest fan.

He has been proved right before when rushing to conclusions produced a consensus that was wrong. On the information the public has been given, there is no proof that it was Russia. It's not inconceivable that some maverick group or state such as Ukraine was responsible, perhaps to cause trouble between Russia and UK.

Whatever conclusions one wishes to draw it wasn't the time to talk about budget cuts, the man is a loony bin.

The conclusions I wish to draw are it's 100% Russia. How one acquires concrete proof against a state is a mystery really. Assad denies culpability for using chemical weapons against his people! What concrete proof do we have? So oh yes it was Russia and everything points firmly to them. Sure it could be Australia, Holland or Wales but it isn't, it's Russia. Even without releasing all the intel to the public we know it's Russia because the government's rhetoric is so robust.

Russia have launched a chemical weapon attack on our soil in public almost killing a policeman and endangering our people. This shit is getting real. Personally I wouldn't be standing my scruffy ass up in parliament talking about budget cuts. 

[titaniumbean]

I see that former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan Colin Murray has floated the idea that Israel might be behind this attack in Salisbury.

It's not so far fetched when you read his reasoning and coming on the back of the Saudi's visit to the UK. 

The Blairites and Labour Friends for Israel pretty keen to crush this story. 

I'm with Corbyn and France on this, I'd want to see solid evidence that this was Russia before I started poking Putin. 

There seems to be a typical little Britain mentality being displayed by politicians across the spectrum. 

you have US/UK experts sayings it's the exclusive brand of agent only made in Russia.  would you only believe Russian results?

The key word there being only!  

We haven't had any such expert make that claim.  Even the PM wouldn't go as far as saying so.

Look at this logically, Putin is days a way from "winning" another election.  they gave this spy a fairly light sentence and then gave him back to the UK in a swap deal do you think he'd have done that if the intention was always to off the bloke?

There is a thing called law and due process and there is no as yet suspect in this attempted murder and there is no physical or forensic evidence to link it to Russia.  It's all whataboutery.

It's not like the UK can hold its hands up and say that it has never taken anyone out on sovereign territory.  

again what would you consider evidence?

do you think the intelligence services are going off what is on the front of the papers or maybe know more and understandably dont just tell everyone that and that is what the maybot is going off of?

There is no suspect and due process works yada yada, look at Litvinenko we know who did that how and why.....

also im not sure your Putin logic is particularly well founded. nor does it seem to understand the way he portrays himself to his country or the world.


but again this is why experts shouldn't be listened to and why laymen should have the last say. 

[MintTrav]

Yesterday showed yet again what a prize plum Corbyn is. Thoroughly unsuitable for PM. Carry on as Labour leader for as long as you like Jeremy, I'm your biggest fan.

He has been proved right before when rushing to conclusions produced a consensus that was wrong. On the information the public has been given, there is no proof that it was Russia. It's not inconceivable that some maverick group or state such as Ukraine was responsible, perhaps to cause trouble between Russia and UK.

Whatever conclusions one wishes to draw it wasn't the time to talk about budget cuts, the man is a loony bin.

The conclusions I wish to draw are it's 100% Russia. How one acquires concrete proof against a state is a mystery really. Assad denies culpability for using chemical weapons against his people! What concrete proof do we have? So oh yes it was Russia and everything points firmly to them. Sure it could be Australia, Holland or Wales but it isn't, it's Russia. Even without releasing all the intel to the public we know it's Russia because the government's rhetoric is so robust.

Russia have launched a chemical weapon attack on our soil in public almost killing a policeman and endangering our people. This shit is getting real. Personally I wouldn't be standing my scruffy ass up in parliament talking about budget cuts. 

Endangering Brits is the oddest part of this amateurish operation. Getting whacked must be an occupational hazard for double agents and few would care much either way if they slugged or strangled him in his house. Risking British deaths seems ridiculously foolhardy and is one of the aspects putting doubt in my mind.

[titaniumbean]

we're leaving Europe, in turmoil, our primary ally is run by a degenerate moron who is narccisitc and craven to Russia, it is the perfect way to exploit this shit storm to show that we are isolated, unable to respond and weak.

[MANTIS01]

The Israel notion is crazy talk. They find themselves in a precarious position as it is, so dicking-up USA support to 'cause trouble' can be discounted.

On the other hand former KGB badass who passed laws saying it's ok to kill defectors in other countries, stating as a fact he wants defectors dead, using a chemical weapon they developed and have sole possession of, hating on the west and deploying said weapon in the west to send a clear message to defectors and western countries that either defect or harbour defectors and I will fuck up your shit. Then having zero sympathy or support, only to threaten us. All that seems to carry more weight than random 'cause trouble'.

Endangering public is the clearest bully boy message I can think of not to tangle with bare-chested soviet leader. The fella knows what he's doing.

[kukushkin88]

Yesterday showed yet again what a prize plum Corbyn is. Thoroughly unsuitable for PM. Carry on as Labour leader for as long as you like Jeremy, I'm your biggest fan.

He said the response should be decisive, evidence based and proportionate. What a total clown, wtf was he thinking? Obviously it's all a disgrace. What part of it particularly annoyed you?

[MANTIS01]

Yesterday showed yet again what a prize plum Corbyn is. Thoroughly unsuitable for PM. Carry on as Labour leader for as long as you like Jeremy, I'm your biggest fan.

He said the response should be decisive, evidence based and proportionate. What a total clown, wtf was he thinking? Obviously it's all a disgrace. What part of it particularly annoyed you?

On second thoughts you're right, he came across like a complete hero, he should prob be in the next Marvel film.

[RED-DOG]

Yesterday showed yet again what a prize plum Corbyn is. Thoroughly unsuitable for PM. Carry on as Labour leader for as long as you like Jeremy, I'm your biggest fan.

He said the response should be decisive, evidence based and proportionate. What a total clown, wtf was he thinking? Obviously it's all a disgrace. What part of it particularly annoyed you?

On second thoughts you're right, he came across like a complete hero, he should prob be in the next Marvel film.

What would his super power be?

I'm going for incredibly thick skin

[kukushkin88]

Yesterday showed yet again what a prize plum Corbyn is. Thoroughly unsuitable for PM. Carry on as Labour leader for as long as you like Jeremy, I'm your biggest fan.

He said the response should be decisive, evidence based and proportionate. What a total clown, wtf was he thinking? Obviously it's all a disgrace. What part of it particularly annoyed you?

On second thoughts you're right, he came across like a complete hero, he should prob be in the next Marvel film.

Man says a few sensible things, while those around him lose their minds isn't much of a film. Might make a decent politician though. Would be interesting to know what he said about the Iraq war.

[MANTIS01]

Breaking News! Britain sustains chemical weapon attack on home soil, policeman critical in hospital and man says some sensible things. Thwack! His own backbenchers cry rhubarb and the public are scared but no fear he continues to say some sensible things regarding budget cuts. Kapow! Putin runs for the hills as he hears about sensible things being spoken. Zinngg! Rocket man gives up nuclear arms defeated by common sense expressions. K-runch! Don't  worry kids the Corbynator will protect us with sensible rhetoric. What a hero!