The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[DungBeetle]

Really any need to use the c word in there?

no need at all. i don't want to delete the post, so am going to settle for editing it out

please, lets cut out the unneccesary language however strongly we feel about an issue

Plenty of "C" words on this thread the last week or so from various posters which is a shame.

[AlunB]

In before Woodsey does Corbyn joke

[titaniumbean]

I've said for my part i'll redact my posts in le future.


But fwiw I find politicians lying, being self serving, corrupt, warmongering and insulting our intelligence a lot more offensive than single instances of naughty words. I also find it no surprise that such important and emotive topics engender those responses sometimes.

[DMorgan]

Farage on tip top form this morning

Pram open, toys everywhere

"I'm commenting on the state of modern Britain, post mass immigration. It means effectively that in some of these seats where people don't speak English and they sign up to postal votes, effectively the electoral process is now dead."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/oldham-west-and-royton-by-election-nigel-farage-blames-people-who-do-not-speak-english-for-ukips-a6759881.html

[TightEnd]

Farage on tip top form this morning

Pram open, toys everywhere

"I'm commenting on the state of modern Britain, post mass immigration. It means effectively that in some of these seats where people don't speak English and they sign up to postal votes, effectively the electoral process is now dead."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/oldham-west-and-royton-by-election-nigel-farage-blames-people-who-do-not-speak-english-for-ukips-a6759881.html

I've got no time for Farage and sure the result would be unaffected anyway

 but if it is true that individual people walked into the electoral offices with bundles of postal votes, can see why there might be questions

i think Oldham was on the electoral commission's list of top 10 "problem" areas for electoral fraud when it reported before the last election

[DungBeetle]

Farage on tip top form this morning

Pram open, toys everywhere

"I'm commenting on the state of modern Britain, post mass immigration. It means effectively that in some of these seats where people don't speak English and they sign up to postal votes, effectively the electoral process is now dead."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/oldham-west-and-royton-by-election-nigel-farage-blames-people-who-do-not-speak-english-for-ukips-a6759881.html

I've got no time for Farage and sure the result would be unaffected anyway

 but if it is true that individual people walked into the electoral offices with bundles of postal votes, can see why there might be questions

i think Oldham was on the electoral commission's list of top 10 "problem" areas for electoral fraud when it reported before the last election

Postal voting has it's place, but I don't see why it is allowed if the voter is in the country and isn't sick/housebound.

[AndrewT]

The speech that image comes from - sometimes the apple does fall far from the tree.

Again, Jeremy Corbyn sits on the right shoulder

I presume this is misleading by accident? Tony and Hilary Benn have almost identical politics. They are speaking about different wars with different UN mandates.

It is probably deliberate, but Tony died last year, so suspect it wasn't internded to be misleading.  Tony Benn and Jeremy Corbyn are cut from the same cloth politically, but Hilary is very much a Blairite.

My point about all this was Tony Benn used his speech to concentrate the House's attention on the effect that military action would have on the civilian population. Hilary spoke for 15 minutes and mentioned them once, in passing, instead using the 'ISIS are bad people, we fight bad people, let's fight bad people' argument. I'm pretty sure Tony would would have abhored such a simplistic, black and white stance on the issue.

[samurai]

Why on earth would Cameron want or need to influence a by election in a seat his party had absolutely no chance of winning. Even if one has a low enough opinion of him to believe he'd do that, it's obvious to anyone with any political nous that (a) keeping Corbyn as Labour leader is beneficial to the Tories and (b) there is no sense to giving ukip any momentum when the Euro referendum is just around the corner.

With regard to the terrorist sympathisers comment....if the cap fits......

[horseplayer]

Evening dave

[kukushkin88]

Good morning,

I'm a little surprised people are worried about rude words when we're talking about war but if it has upset people I apologise. No more use of the c word from me.

[TightEnd]

Good morning,

I'm a little surprised people are worried about rude words when we're talking about war but if it has upset people I apologise. No more use of the c word from me.

Morning

we don't want to be precious, and i know they are emotive subjects with wide differences of opinions and this is an adult forum

c words, use of stuff like retard, spastic, moron etc (not you, but all seen again on the forum recently) really detract from the place we think

so does trolling, of course (before someone goes again on that)   

[kukushkin88]

Why on earth would Cameron want or need to influence a by election in a seat his party had absolutely no chance of winning. Even if one has a low enough opinion of him to believe he'd do that, it's obvious to anyone with any political nous that (a) keeping Corbyn as Labour leader is beneficial to the Tories and (b) there is no sense to giving ukip any momentum when the Euro referendum is just around the corner.

With regard to the terrorist sympathisers comment....if the cap fits......

Tighty knows way more about Tory strategy than most, certainly more than me, he said the phrase was chosen to influence the by-election, I've no reason to doubt him.

Here is part of the reason why the terrorist sympathisers comment should ensure Cameron is remembered amongst the worst people to lead this wonderful country.

Entering into a dialogue and finding a peaceful solution is preferable to war 100% of the time. For these discussion to work you have to understand the argument/standpoint of your adversary. If you don't you'll not be successful. Unfortunately there'll be no peaceful solution with IS because they believe in a doctrine that belongs to the infancy of mankind. To call people terrorist sympathisers because they've continually attempted to identify peaceful solution to wars is horrendous.

[TightEnd]

it was said in the 1922 committee, a supposedly private meeting

as andrew t said the other day, very naive considering that not all those present agreed with him on the syria vote to expect such a controversial comment to remain private

i could well be wrong on the relevance to the by-election, think the new statesman made a link which i repeated on here

[RickBFA]

Why on earth would Cameron want or need to influence a by election in a seat his party had absolutely no chance of winning. Even if one has a low enough opinion of him to believe he'd do that, it's obvious to anyone with any political nous that (a) keeping Corbyn as Labour leader is beneficial to the Tories and (b) there is no sense to giving ukip any momentum when the Euro referendum is just around the corner.

With regard to the terrorist sympathisers comment....if the cap fits......

Tighty knows way more about Tory strategy than most, certainly more than me, he said the phrase was chosen to influence the by-election, I've no reason to doubt him.

Here is part of the reason why the terrorist sympathisers comment should ensure Cameron is remembered amongst the worst people to lead this wonderful country.

Entering into a dialogue and finding a peaceful solution is preferable to war 100% of the time. For these discussion to work you have to understand the argument/standpoint of your adversary. If you don't you'll not be successful. Unfortunately there'll be no peaceful solution with IS because they believe in a doctrine that belongs to the infancy of mankind. To call people terrorist sympathisers because they've continually attempted to identify peaceful solution to wars is horrendous.

Cameron was wrong to use the terrorist sympathisers line however the real issue is the decision to start bombing in Syria.

The idea that one misjudged comment makes him "amongst the worst people to lead this wonderful country" is somewhat jumping the gun.

History will judge Cameron's time and leadership as PM.

Although I have mixed feelings about bombing Syria, I can at least see a reasoned argument for both points of view - this is in complete contrast to the worst foreign policy decision in 50 years which Blair made to go into Iraq. That was more about Blair looking for his place in history than defending our country against a real threat to us.

[titaniumbean]

it was said in the 1922 committee, a supposedly private meeting

as andrew t said the other day, very naive considering that not all those present agreed with him on the syria vote to expect such a controversial comment to remain private

i could well be wrong on the relevance to the by-election, think the new statesman made a link which i repeated on here

I ******* LOVE IT

SPYING POWERS BABY. ZOMG WE NEED PRIVACY, Y U NO RESPECT PRIVACY, WE HAS RIGHT TO PRIVACY YA, UNLIKE LAWYERS, DOCTORS, AND JOURNALISTS HIGHLIGHTING OUR ILLEGALITIES.....




This is an excellent and frustration inducing read -

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/03/hidden-politics-syria-vote-airstrikes-war


I got angry at this claim he made, then saw this article and thought hah see other people agree, then saw the useless biased tabloid that published it and just cried on the inside. Their paper has gone so pathetically downhill and is so inanely subservient to the conservatives for them to then be saying this upsets me because of just how ridiculous his claim must be. Fully aligning his integrity with that of Blair and his perfectly accurate dossier....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/12032508/Senior-defence-figures-warn-David-Cameron-against-saying-there-are-70000-opposition-fighters-in-Syria.html