The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[DaveShoelace]

(ps I wish you would stop with the terrorism claims.)

its my major bug bear with him. IRA, hezbollah, hamas, stop the war chairmanship, attitude to ISIS

far more than any economic policy, trident etc

 

This

The Tories were bang out of order to misquote him in the Bin Laden interview the way they did. I became very weary of listening to anyone who claimed he was a terrorist sympathiser after that.

However, his own actions have done more harm than any Tory propaganda. All the stuff Tighty said, plus his shoot to kill comments, his not pushing the nuclear button comments, Ken Livingstone's recent comments on question time and now sacking someone for not being a terrorist sympathiser. He just keeps giving tap-ins to the Tories.

I'm not sure which would be more harmful to this country if he was ever leader and we were ever under attack - his passivity or the fact he would probably be cheering for the other side.

[Doobs]

(ps I wish you would stop with the terrorism claims.)

its my major bug bear with him. IRA, hezbollah, hamas, stop the war chairmanship, attitude to ISIS

far more than any economic policy, trident etc

 

This

The Tories were bang out of order to misquote him in the Bin Laden interview the way they did. I became very weary of listening to anyone who claimed he was a terrorist sympathiser after that.

However, his own actions have done more harm than any Tory propaganda. All the stuff Tighty said, plus his shoot to kill comments, his not pushing the nuclear button comments, Ken Livingstone's recent comments on question time and now sacking someone for not being a terrorist sympathiser. He just keeps giving tap-ins to the Tories.

I'm not sure which would be more harmful to this country if he was ever leader and we were ever under attack - his passivity or the fact he would probably be cheering for the other side.

They didn't misquote him, they just took his words out of context, and I don't think they look better in context.

“This was an assassination attempt, and is yet another tragedy, upon a tragedy, upon a tragedy.

“The World Trade Center was a tragedy, the attack on Afghanistan was a tragedy, the war in Iraq was a tragedy. Tens of thousands of people have died. Torture has come back on to the world stage, been canonised virtually into law by Guantánamo and Bagram.

“Can’t we learn some lessons from this? Are we just going to sink deeper and deeper?

“The next stage will be an attempted assassination on Gaddafi and so it will go on. This will just make the world more dangerous and worse and worse and worse.”

[DaveShoelace]

(ps I wish you would stop with the terrorism claims.)

its my major bug bear with him. IRA, hezbollah, hamas, stop the war chairmanship, attitude to ISIS

far more than any economic policy, trident etc

 

This

The Tories were bang out of order to misquote him in the Bin Laden interview the way they did. I became very weary of listening to anyone who claimed he was a terrorist sympathiser after that.

However, his own actions have done more harm than any Tory propaganda. All the stuff Tighty said, plus his shoot to kill comments, his not pushing the nuclear button comments, Ken Livingstone's recent comments on question time and now sacking someone for not being a terrorist sympathiser. He just keeps giving tap-ins to the Tories.

I'm not sure which would be more harmful to this country if he was ever leader and we were ever under attack - his passivity or the fact he would probably be cheering for the other side.

They didn't misquote him, they just took his words out of context, and I don't think they look better in context.

“This was an assassination attempt, and is yet another tragedy, upon a tragedy, upon a tragedy.

“The World Trade Center was a tragedy, the attack on Afghanistan was a tragedy, the war in Iraq was a tragedy. Tens of thousands of people have died. Torture has come back on to the world stage, been canonised virtually into law by Guantánamo and Bagram.

“Can’t we learn some lessons from this? Are we just going to sink deeper and deeper?

“The next stage will be an attempted assassination on Gaddafi and so it will go on. This will just make the world more dangerous and worse and worse and worse.”

Yes sorry my bad, that's what I meant

[TightEnd]

this is interesting

"In this personal and provocative piece, Joe Haines, Harold Wilson's press secretary, argues that the Labour moderates cannot "wait for something to turn up" in their battle against Jeremy Corbyn's leadership."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/01/micawber-syndrome-or-why-labour-mps-must-depose-jeremy-corbyn-now

[ripple11]

this is interesting

"In this personal and provocative piece, Joe Haines, Harold Wilson's press secretary, argues that the Labour moderates cannot "wait for something to turn up" in their battle against Jeremy Corbyn's leadership."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/01/micawber-syndrome-or-why-labour-mps-must-depose-jeremy-corbyn-now

Barring a cataclysmic economic failure or a sexual scandal of unimaginable proportions, Cameron’s successor will have a shoo-in


....the economy looks ok, so I guess we need Christine Keeler and Edwina Currie to conjure up something special 

[Longines]

First reshuffle  - government or shadow - to result in more resignations than planned moves?

[horseplayer]

(ps I wish you would stop with the terrorism claims.)

its my major bug bear with him. IRA, hezbollah, hamas, stop the war chairmanship, attitude to ISIS

far more than any economic policy, trident etc

 

This

The Tories were bang out of order to misquote him in the Bin Laden interview the way they did. I became very weary of listening to anyone who claimed he was a terrorist sympathiser after that.

However, his own actions have done more harm than any Tory propaganda. All the stuff Tighty said, plus his shoot to kill comments, his not pushing the nuclear button comments, Ken Livingstone's recent comments on question time and now sacking someone for not being a terrorist sympathiser. He just keeps giving tap-ins to the Tories.

I'm not sure which would be more harmful to this country if he was ever leader and we were ever under attack - his passivity or the fact he would probably be cheering for the other side.

You are better than this

[DaveShoelace]

(ps I wish you would stop with the terrorism claims.)

its my major bug bear with him. IRA, hezbollah, hamas, stop the war chairmanship, attitude to ISIS

far more than any economic policy, trident etc

 

This

The Tories were bang out of order to misquote him in the Bin Laden interview the way they did. I became very weary of listening to anyone who claimed he was a terrorist sympathiser after that.

However, his own actions have done more harm than any Tory propaganda. All the stuff Tighty said, plus his shoot to kill comments, his not pushing the nuclear button comments, Ken Livingstone's recent comments on question time and now sacking someone for not being a terrorist sympathiser. He just keeps giving tap-ins to the Tories.

I'm not sure which would be more harmful to this country if he was ever leader and we were ever under attack - his passivity or the fact he would probably be cheering for the other side.

You are better than this

With a great deal of genuine respect, if you disagree with what I say by all means challenge the points themselves, rather than making a passive aggressive judgement on my character. Always happy to debate and even be proven wrong on something, but snarky asides like that stifle debate.

(Don't want to derail the thread, just want to keep it on the points themselves)

[TightEnd]

i wish dianne aboott wasn't the go-to media interview for the Corbyn team

surely they have someone better?

[AndrewT]

Diane Abbott being interviewed by Evan Davis - the worst interviewer talking to the worst interviewee.

[MintTrav]

(ps I wish you would stop with the terrorism claims.)

its my major bug bear with him. IRA, hezbollah, hamas, stop the war chairmanship, attitude to ISIS

far more than any economic policy, trident etc

 

This

The Tories were bang out of order to misquote him in the Bin Laden interview the way they did. I became very weary of listening to anyone who claimed he was a terrorist sympathiser after that.

However, his own actions have done more harm than any Tory propaganda. All the stuff Tighty said, plus his shoot to kill comments, his not pushing the nuclear button comments, Ken Livingstone's recent comments on question time and now sacking someone for not being a terrorist sympathiser. He just keeps giving tap-ins to the Tories.

I'm not sure which would be more harmful to this country if he was ever leader and we were ever under attack - his passivity or the fact he would probably be cheering for the other side.

You are better than this

With a great deal of genuine respect, if you disagree with what I say by all means challenge the points themselves, rather than making a passive aggressive judgement on my character. Always happy to debate and even be proven wrong on something, but snarky asides like that stifle debate.

(Don't want to derail the thread, just want to keep it on the points themselves)

I wrote quite a long post yesterday doing exactly what you say, ie rebutting the points in these posts by you and Tighty,  but managed to lose it. I'll try to recreate it if I get a chance but I agree with horseplayer - these posts by you and Tighty are awful.

[DungBeetle]

i don't see why they are 'awful'?  People don't even need to make points - they can just quote Corbyn directly and let people make their own minds up?  No spin required.

[RickBFA]

Even if the points about Corbyn are wrong, the very best you can say about his views are that they are communicated extremely badly and perception is just as bad as reality if it loses you support/votes. If you look weak on national defence or appear to be have any sympathy with extremist views, the public will not trust the guy. It's basic common sense that he just seems to ignore.

He may not care but that is one of the reasons he makes an awful leader.

[DaveShoelace]

(ps I wish you would stop with the terrorism claims.)

its my major bug bear with him. IRA, hezbollah, hamas, stop the war chairmanship, attitude to ISIS

far more than any economic policy, trident etc

 

This

The Tories were bang out of order to misquote him in the Bin Laden interview the way they did. I became very weary of listening to anyone who claimed he was a terrorist sympathiser after that.

However, his own actions have done more harm than any Tory propaganda. All the stuff Tighty said, plus his shoot to kill comments, his not pushing the nuclear button comments, Ken Livingstone's recent comments on question time and now sacking someone for not being a terrorist sympathiser. He just keeps giving tap-ins to the Tories.

I'm not sure which would be more harmful to this country if he was ever leader and we were ever under attack - his passivity or the fact he would probably be cheering for the other side.

You are better than this

With a great deal of genuine respect, if you disagree with what I say by all means challenge the points themselves, rather than making a passive aggressive judgement on my character. Always happy to debate and even be proven wrong on something, but snarky asides like that stifle debate.

(Don't want to derail the thread, just want to keep it on the points themselves)

I wrote quite a long post yesterday doing exactly what you say, ie rebutting the points in these posts by you and Tighty,  but managed to lose it. I'll try to recreate it if I get a chance but I agree with horseplayer - these posts by you and Tighty are awful.

I look forward to hopefully seeing a rebuttle but again, simply pointing out how awful they are without any actual constructive criticism isn't in the spirit of healthy debate.

Anyway I'm derailing like I said I didn't want to.

[DungBeetle]

I'm sure a rebuttal is perfectly possible, and it can be framed that ultimately everything he says has an endgame of peace. 

However, put the below quote on a billboard in 2020 and Corbyn is toast with the general electorate in my opinion.  Once the perception is out there (and I think it already is to be honest) then it's probably too late to put it in any positive light.

"Tomorrow evening it will be my pleasure and my honour to host an event in parliament where our friends from Hezbollah will be speaking. I’ve also invited friends from Hamas to come and speak as well. Unfortunately the Israelis would not allow them to travel here.  The idea that Hamas should be labelled as a terrorist organisation by the British government is really a big, big historical mistake"

Pleasure?  Honour?  Okay Jeremy.