The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

Leaving aside Corbyn, I think Cameron is getting worse at PMQs.  Might be complacency but this week like he had pre-prepared gags to stick to Corbyn and it came across badly and wooden in my opinion.

Corbyn stuck it to him on flood defence. a shame for him that its lost in all the drama swirling around on labour

[DaveShoelace]

Leaving aside Corbyn, I think Cameron is getting worse at PMQs.  Might be complacency but this week like he had pre-prepared gags to stick to Corbyn and it came across badly and wooden in my opinion.

I have got the impression that Cameron has been phoning it in a bit the last few months, he even looks half asleep, slouches more and seems scruffier. Whatever you think of his politics he has always held court pretty well in that regard, doesn't seem as sharp of late. 

[MintTrav]

People in this thread are conflating separate issues. I am objecting to Corbyn being painted as a terrorist sympathiser. Whether he can or will win a general election is a totally separate matter. You can say that one leads to the other to some extent, but that is not what I have been posting about.

I understand what you are saying, he hasn't helped himself though, has he?

There are definitely linked - no trust means no votes. Terrorism is a highly emotive topic. Look weak and you are dead politically.

Do you think Corbyn could have be more robust in his condemnation of the likes of ISIS?

Yes.

I agree with the comments above to the effect that he could have made things simpler for everyone by being clearer in all this.

[MintTrav]

People in this thread are conflating separate issues. I am objecting to Corbyn being painted as a terrorist sympathiser. Whether he can or will win a general election is a totally separate matter. You can say that one leads to the other to some extent, but that is not what I have been posting about.

I can understand why you think I may have come across a 'bit Tabloid' and I accept I might have been overly condemning of the man in my post.

However, what is your view on him firing Pat McFadden because he refused to blame the west on the Paris terror attacks? I could respect him firing someone for wanting to bomb Syria, god knows I am conflicted about that one. However, this action seems to me like he is absolving the attackers and condemning the west, which Britain is part of. That does not sound like someone I want charged with protecting this country, and it feels like an insult to the victims.

I may be wrong, I am open to having my mind changed about these topics as I have hundreds of times in these threads, but is that really an 'awful' viewpoint?

They say that he was sacked for a succession of incidents undermining the leadership and the item that McFadden has highlighted was just one of them. The leader can have who he wants and the relationship had obviously broken down, but the presentation has been terrible as usual.

John McDonnell - "What McFadden has done on a number of occasions is unfortunately distorted Jeremy's views and turned that into an almost personalised undermining of Jeremy. To be frank, if you want to do that, go to the backbenches and express your views".


Pat McFadden
@patmcfaddenmp
20 Nov 2015

"Good to hear John Reid on the radio this morning. Reminded me of when we were a champions league team."

[MintTrav]

Gosh, I was harsh yesterday. Hope I didn't upset anyone.

[DaveShoelace]

Gosh, I was harsh yesterday. Hope I didn't upset anyone.

I don't think you were harsh at all, this is the politics thread, I think we all like it because it is provocative and challenging. As long as we don't resort to 'Yo Mama' jokes and occasionally are prepared to take a step back and reconsider what we've said, I think debates like the one we all had is what we came here for.

[TightEnd]

Corbyn's approval rating down to 4% (32% in Sept '15). In contrast w/ Cameron's approval:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12087246/Labour-voters-are-losing-faith-in-Jeremy-Corbyn.html

[AlunB]

Really interesting discussion on Corbyn and his views on, let's call it, "foreign policy".

I'm reasonably old and I can remember when there were collections for "the troubles" and people who passionately supported that side of the conflict. Likewise there were and are still now passionate supporters of Palestine. Not neutrals, supporters. They don't want a resolution, they want Israel to lose.

That's not saying it's not a valid position, but it's not the same as being neutral and trying to find a resolution.

I'm not saying Corbyn or any of his cabinet are in either of these camps, but that is what is being suggested by many in the right (and left) wing media. And while the language is inflammatory I don't think it's totally unreasonable to call someone who is an active supporter of an organisation designated as a terrorist organisation as a terrorist sympathiser.

Again, not saying that's my view (or his) but it's not all spin and smear.

[tikay]

^^^^

Welcome back Alun, you've been missed. Not by me, I should add, obv.

[AlunB]

Haha! The king of the backhanded compliment.

Just to add to my point above what I was trying to get across is it's wrong/dangerous for Corbyn supporters to just totally dismiss the language used by the other side.

[TightEnd]

thee has long been an "anti Zionist"/pro palestine view on the hard left of the labour party

 the full text of Jeremy Corbyn's address to the Labour Friends of Israel reception, when he was heckled for not using the word 'Israel' is an interesting read

https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/news/jeremy-corbyns-full-speech-labour-friends-israel-reception#sthash.iMr1W9SU.dpuf

[TightEnd]

Shadow attorney general Catherine McKinnell resigns, citing concerns over Labour's direction under Jeremy Corbyn http://bbc.in/1nd3cIq

the sooner this lot stop looking at themselves and fighting and start looking out and fighting the government, the better, surely?

[TightEnd]

Question for Shadow Cabinet is whether they will think there is no point serving on frontbench for good of party etc

http://specc.ie/1mPTY58

[TightEnd]

"It's not inconceivable that in a years time there'll be a new Tory leader and PM"

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/01/11/its-not-inconceivable-that-in-a-years-time-therell-be-a-new-con-leader-and-pm/

[DaveShoelace]

Question of the day

Should Britain stay in the European Union, and why do you think that?