The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[MintTrav]

So, Corbyn is in France visiting a refugee camp. Should be an easy job for the Press to turn this into him canoodling with good-for-nothing aspiring benefit claimants and potential terrorists.

Click to see full-size image.

In fairness to the Daily Mail, it recently did a piece showing how bad conditions are in the camp. Some of the comments are depressing, though.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3385169/The-unknown-refugee-camp-far-worse-Calais-jungle-Rat-infested-mudbath-settlement-Dunkirk-2-000-migrants-live-brink-sanitation-crisis-just-one-toilet-100-people.html


Tweeters were in good form today -

BritCits (Sonel) ‏@BritCits : Corbyn's first overseas trip as Labour leader is to a refugee camp in France.

Ranty Man ‏@ranty_man : British politician goes to see how awful France is

Man in Black ‏@69mib : Jeremy Corbyn meets and greets future Labour Party voters in the Grande-Synthe migrant camp near Dunkirk.

[TightEnd]

[RickBFA]

A few pages back I was asking about the NHS changing.

Unfortunately in last 48 hours my father in law was diagnosed with a brain tumour.

It was agreed at 11am this morning that he could be discharged taking some medication with him and return for a detailed meeting this Wednesday.

We know the NHS is desperate for beds at this time of year.

He's still in his hospital bed at 7.15pm awaiting the medication as it can only be delivered on some sort of round of delivery to the ward.

He is really tired and wants to go home.
 
This is an example (whilst acknowledging the great work it does) of how inefficient it can be.

Seems totally crazy to block the bed for so long.

[TightEnd]

sorry to hear about your father in law

experienced something similar when my son was being discharged after an op and a week in

signed off by the registrar at 10am, wait for meds to leave

7.30pm discharged as the note/prescription needed to be delivered by a particular pharmacy trolley

the meds were stong ibruprofen, no more than that

"we've always done it like that" was as far as i got from an end of tether ward sister wanting the bed (understandably)....

[RickBFA]

Thanks Tighty.

It might seem insignificant but in a large hospital it could be 10/20/30 beds tied up this way?

Whilst perhaps someone is laying on a trolley in A&E.

Strange way to organise valuable resources.

[MintTrav]

Are there a lot of people waiting on trolleys? I had no idea. Apparently there were 23,000+ in November, up from 6,000+ in the same month in 2010.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11262541/Number-of-patients-waiting-on-trolleys-in-AandE-triples.html

A&E's processed 1.1m+ patients in the month. 23,000 is quite a bit less than 1,000 a day, which still doesn't seem too bad to me. Is it bad? I guess the growth could be an indicator of NHS cutbacks biting.

When I was back in Ireland at Christmas, I was surprised that they now state the exact number waiting on trolleys and the change since the previous day on the national news each day.

[RickBFA]

Are there a lot of people waiting on trolleys? I had no idea. Apparently there were 23,000+ in November, up from 6,000+ in the same month in 2010.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11262541/Number-of-patients-waiting-on-trolleys-in-AandE-triples.html

A&E's processed 1.1m+ patients in the month. 23,000 is quite a bit less than 1,000 a day, which still doesn't seem too bad to me. Is it bad? I guess the growth could be an indicator of NHS cutbacks biting.

When I was back in Ireland at Christmas, I was surprised that they now state the exact number waiting on trolleys and the change since the previous day on the national news each day.

By chance I heard a BBC Five Live programme on the topic of people waiting in A&E on trolleys this morning.

One woman's husband was on a trolley in A&E for 24 hours after a heart attack.

There was a big focus on the main issue being beds that were blocked.

It's things like the drugs delivery issue that are frustrating. Sometimes if feels like the NHS is so sacred that any one who criticise are branded right wing trouble makers wanting to privatise. When in reality we all need the NHS to be as efficient as possible delivering a free to all service.

This was kind of what I was hinting at a few pages ago. Reviews of NHS practices are critical if we going to get the value for the public ££££. My perception is that this is not a comfortable discussion and any change is seen as a threat rather than a genuine attempt to improve the service.

[PokerBroker]

A few pages back I was asking about the NHS changing.

Unfortunately in last 48 hours my father in law was diagnosed with a brain tumour.

It was agreed at 11am this morning that he could be discharged taking some medication with him and return for a detailed meeting this Wednesday.

We know the NHS is desperate for beds at this time of year.

He's still in his hospital bed at 7.15pm awaiting the medication as it can only be delivered on some sort of round of delivery to the ward.

He is really tired and wants to go home.
 
This is an example (whilst acknowledging the great work it does) of how inefficient it can be.

Seems totally crazy to block the bed for so long.

Sorry to hear about your Father in Law Rick.  I can relate to this very subject.  We had a similar situation with the mother-in-law recently, not as serious as tumour but never the less she was couped up in a bed awaiting a prescription that we could have picked up from a pharmacist. 

I am in agreement that there are many on the left who have their views entrenched that if you try and speak of modernisation they get all fidgety and see it as an attack on doctors and nurses.  For me that is very much not the case.  I have a few friends who work within the NHS - at various levels - they all believe they need modernisation, but they are crippled with routine/historical practices, bureaucracy, middle management and meddling politicians. 

During this latest fiasco involving junior doctors I don't think the health secretary has won many friends in the NHS.  One would expect that many of these junior doctors would go on to become Tory supporters.  Assuming that wealth is a major driving force in your political conviction - this is not the case for everyone but it is for many. 

In my mind, a complete overhaul is required.  The problem is I don't know where to start.  I suppose the small things like issuing prescriptions/medications is as good a place as any but what then?  Could we void the PFI deals?  I am sure this legacy of the Labour Party is still costing millions per year.   

[DungBeetle]

Same thing happened to my mum after an operation.  Dressed, packed, ready to go home at 11am.  Signed out at 5pm after having to wait for meds. 

She was also told to turn up pre operation at 2pm and bed wasn't ready till 6pm so presumably the same thing happening to previous patient.

If this is happening to everyone surely it is a blindingly obvious way to make bed use more efficient?  I know medication needs to be double and triple checked, but it seems more just poor organisation?  The mind boggles how the NHS management can't see this.

[nirvana]

Interesting this and don't mean to offend anyone who has had to sit with a relative being discharged..but is it really so bad that people being discharged (by definition non urgent) have to wait behind (possibly) more urgent deliveries/cases.

I can remember getting agitated at discharge delays because I wanted to go play poker and stuff like that and had to give myself a talking too - a bit like being anxious at being stuffed up on a motorway while some poor sod is being airlifted off up ahead

[TightEnd]

Interesting this and don't mean to offend anyone who has had to sit with a relative being discharged..but is it really so bad that people being discharged (by definition non urgent) have to wait behind (possibly) more urgent deliveries/cases.

I can remember getting agitated at discharge delays because I wanted to go play poker and stuff like that and had to give myself a talking too - a bit like being anxious at being stuffed up on a motorway while some poor sod is being airlifted off up ahead

yes i get that. my issue (on top of my impatience!) was that a bed was being wasted for the day at a time when we hear bed capacity is a problem.

[nirvana]

Interesting this and don't mean to offend anyone who has had to sit with a relative being discharged..but is it really so bad that people being discharged (by definition non urgent) have to wait behind (possibly) more urgent deliveries/cases.

I can remember getting agitated at discharge delays because I wanted to go play poker and stuff like that and had to give myself a talking too - a bit like being anxious at being stuffed up on a motorway while some poor sod is being airlifted off up ahead

yes i get that. my issue (on top of my impatience!) was that a bed was being wasted for the day at a time when we hear bed capacity is a problem.

I don't think it's as simple as that. If it was I'm pretty sure it would be 'fixed'. It's not like a manufacturing plant making cars where it's quite easy to balance a one piece flow through a variety of different processes and product options

Considering the diversity of treatments, issues, customer types I'm amazed the NHS is as efficient as it is. I've been to many, many smaller, less complex manufacturing operations who need forever to do anything, find it impossible to use equipment remotely effectively or anywhere near capacity. Most, if survival demands they satisfy their customer with shorter, 100% reliable delivery times, rely on heavy over capacity internally.

Or of course, take the less expensive route of sub contracting to more efficient , smaller unit specialist operators.

Anyone up for paying for this capacity in the NHS or ready to accept wholesale subcontracting without nonsensically calling it privatisation ?

[DungBeetle]

Interesting this and don't mean to offend anyone who has had to sit with a relative being discharged..but is it really so bad that people being discharged (by definition non urgent) have to wait behind (possibly) more urgent deliveries/cases.

I can remember getting agitated at discharge delays because I wanted to go play poker and stuff like that and had to give myself a talking too - a bit like being anxious at being stuffed up on a motorway while some poor sod is being airlifted off up ahead

Quite possibly.  But if bed shortage is a big issue you'd think they could think of a solution.  If this happens on a big scale then they are wasting 5 hours of bed time per patient per day.  Seems gross inefficiency.

Edit:  When it happened at the time I wasn't really bothered and it was just one of those things, but if it has happened to 4 people on this thread in the same way I'm starting to think it's just poor organisation.

[RickBFA]

Interesting this and don't mean to offend anyone who has had to sit with a relative being discharged..but is it really so bad that people being discharged (by definition non urgent) have to wait behind (possibly) more urgent deliveries/cases.

I can remember getting agitated at discharge delays because I wanted to go play poker and stuff like that and had to give myself a talking too - a bit like being anxious at being stuffed up on a motorway while some poor sod is being airlifted off up ahead

Quite possibly.  But if bed shortage is a big issue you'd think they could think of a solution.  If this happens on a big scale then they are wasting 5 hours of bed time per patient per day.  Seems gross inefficiency.

Edit:  When it happened at the time I wasn't really bothered and it was just one of those things, but if it has happened to 4 people on this thread in the same way I'm starting to think it's just poor organisation.

I know its easy to judge but it really does look/feel like poor organisation.

I saw a BBC piece, about 6-8 weeks ago, I think it was on Breakfast TV about a new system that had been introduced in one hospital in London (I think), where the nurse/doctor entered the details of the medication needed and an automated robot system prepared the drugs and distributed it.

Said the savings/efficiencies were enormous. If I can find a link I'll post it.

Things like this can be changed for the common good and save money.

[RickBFA]

Cant find the exact link but this one was filmed 5 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGDBkJgxjdM

It demonstrates the type of thing I'm on about.