The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Marky147]

Lol at everyone admitting to having a punt at drugs at some point in their life. 7/11 in the Tory leadership race apparently, seriously who gives a fk as long as they aren’t doing it now, pretty sure those numbers would broadly reflect society as a whole anyway.

yeah - but it sheds a bit of light on why the trump entourage was desperate to meet up with gove when they were in britain.

I have no idea what you are on about.....

Top drawer powder, I presume

[TightEnd]

Brilliant and devastating piece by Matthew Parris on Boris Johnson

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/let-me-assure-you-boris-johnson-will-fail-as-pm-hl7b6tkx5

It would be interesting to know if there are any articles out there that give us any hope in any situation, but I am sure they won't be posted....

Anyhoooo.

I am amazed at Boris being the saviour. Wasn't he the first to abandon, what we gathered were ,his principles, and accept TMs watered down version of Brexit when the going got a little tough?

Hardly the honest steadfast headliner the Conservatives need.

Used to think him and Trump would be amusing as a dynamic duo at the head of U.S./ British politics, but as about the only person on this thread capable of shifting their position, I'm now not so sure, and Boris is the bigger worry.

As I always say, I do not have a monopoly on posting articles

.If you find any optimistic ones, especially those with workable solutions, then please post them.

 I haven't seen any recently otherwise I would have posted them!

[Doobs]

Brilliant and devastating piece by Matthew Parris on Boris Johnson

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/let-me-assure-you-boris-johnson-will-fail-as-pm-hl7b6tkx5

It would be interesting to know if there are any articles out there that give us any hope in any situation, but I am sure they won't be posted....

Anyhoooo.

I am amazed at Boris being the saviour. Wasn't he the first to abandon, what we gathered were ,his principles, and accept TMs watered down version of Brexit when the going got a little tough?

Hardly the honest steadfast headliner the Conservatives need.

Used to think him and Trump would be amusing as a dynamic duo at the head of U.S./ British politics, but as about the only person on this thread capable of shifting their position, I'm now not so sure, and Boris is the bigger worry.

Why is May's Brexit deal watered down Brexit?   Outside of Ireland, it seemed to meet pretty much every concern of those that wanted Brexit.   People go on about what a bad deal it was, without actually defining what is bad about it.   

[MANTIS01]

Brilliant and devastating piece by Matthew Parris on Boris Johnson

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/let-me-assure-you-boris-johnson-will-fail-as-pm-hl7b6tkx5

It would be interesting to know if there are any articles out there that give us any hope in any situation, but I am sure they won't be posted....

Anyhoooo.

I am amazed at Boris being the saviour. Wasn't he the first to abandon, what we gathered were ,his principles, and accept TMs watered down version of Brexit when the going got a little tough?

Hardly the honest steadfast headliner the Conservatives need.

Used to think him and Trump would be amusing as a dynamic duo at the head of U.S./ British politics, but as about the only person on this thread capable of shifting their position, I'm now not so sure, and Boris is the bigger worry.

Why is May's Brexit deal watered down Brexit?   Outside of Ireland, it seemed to meet pretty much every concern of those that wanted Brexit.   People go on about what a bad deal it was, without actually defining what is bad about it.   

Legally enforced to indefinitely adhere to EU doctrine without any vote or influence at a cost of £38b+ would be my starter for 10

[4KSuited]

I agree, Doobs

The only bad issue I could determine was the fear that the hardliners had of being locked into the backstop arrangement without a defined end date: what none of them seemed to accept was that they would be jointly responsible for said “lock-in”.

The more time passes, I’m increasingly of the view that a significant number of MPs were only interested in using Brexit as a basis for personal or party ambitions - which is why there was never going to be a proposal that would achieve a majority in the Commons to this point. Perhaps only now (following.the EU Elections results) will a majority vote with the National interest in mind, if or when they get to the next round of votes.

[Doobs]

Brilliant and devastating piece by Matthew Parris on Boris Johnson

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/let-me-assure-you-boris-johnson-will-fail-as-pm-hl7b6tkx5

It would be interesting to know if there are any articles out there that give us any hope in any situation, but I am sure they won't be posted....

Anyhoooo.

I am amazed at Boris being the saviour. Wasn't he the first to abandon, what we gathered were ,his principles, and accept TMs watered down version of Brexit when the going got a little tough?

Hardly the honest steadfast headliner the Conservatives need.

Used to think him and Trump would be amusing as a dynamic duo at the head of U.S./ British politics, but as about the only person on this thread capable of shifting their position, I'm now not so sure, and Boris is the bigger worry.

Why is May's Brexit deal watered down Brexit?   Outside of Ireland, it seemed to meet pretty much every concern of those that wanted Brexit.   People go on about what a bad deal it was, without actually defining what is bad about it.   

Legally enforced to indefinitely adhere to EU doctrine without any vote or influence at a cost of £38b+ would be my starter for 10

Have you got a reference to where that is in the document?

[MANTIS01]

Brilliant and devastating piece by Matthew Parris on Boris Johnson

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/let-me-assure-you-boris-johnson-will-fail-as-pm-hl7b6tkx5

It would be interesting to know if there are any articles out there that give us any hope in any situation, but I am sure they won't be posted....

Anyhoooo.

I am amazed at Boris being the saviour. Wasn't he the first to abandon, what we gathered were ,his principles, and accept TMs watered down version of Brexit when the going got a little tough?

Hardly the honest steadfast headliner the Conservatives need.

Used to think him and Trump would be amusing as a dynamic duo at the head of U.S./ British politics, but as about the only person on this thread capable of shifting their position, I'm now not so sure, and Boris is the bigger worry.

Why is May's Brexit deal watered down Brexit?   Outside of Ireland, it seemed to meet pretty much every concern of those that wanted Brexit.   People go on about what a bad deal it was, without actually defining what is bad about it.   

Legally enforced to indefinitely adhere to EU doctrine without any vote or influence at a cost of £38b+ would be my starter for 10

Have you got a reference to where that is in the document?

Can’t do that because she doesn’t specify what the future negotiating objectives are or the final treaty looks like. Just vagueness. Which fuels my scepticism.

Never used to be like this until project fear unsettled me and now I only think the worst.

[BigAdz]

We do keep looking at everything from a rather introspective viewpoint. Well at least the remainers do.

They don't seem to look at the big picture of how Europe seems to keep letting more in,(who next? Australia? Israel?)and those who have f all. Someone gotta fund them when they go bust.

Are we, sorry Doobs, claiming that Mays deal had all we wanted,.bar a suitable Ireland resolution?

I really doubt that very much.

It's not what I voted for, and to be honest, if you think about it, if S, Ireland wanted to be a part of the U.K. in the first place it wouldn't be an issue......

[RickBFA]

I agree, Doobs

The only bad issue I could determine was the fear that the hardliners had of being locked into the backstop arrangement without a defined end date: what none of them seemed to accept was that they would be jointly responsible for said “lock-in”.

The more time passes, I’m increasingly of the view that a significant number of MPs were only interested in using Brexit as a basis for personal or party ambitions - which is why there was never going to be a proposal that would achieve a majority in the Commons to this point. Perhaps only now (following.the EU Elections results) will a majority vote with the National interest in mind, if or when they get to the next round of votes.

Yep. Makes me wonder how many Labour MP’s wanted to vote for it but didn’t on pure party political grounds.

Must be significant numbers of those where their constituents voted for Brexit but they’ve voted it down time and time again.

[nirvana]

We do keep looking at everything from a rather introspective viewpoint. Well at least the remainers do.

They don't seem to look at the big picture of how Europe seems to keep letting more in,(who next? Australia? Israel?)and those who have f all. Someone gotta fund them when they go bust.

Are we, sorry Doobs, claiming that Mays deal had all we wanted,.bar a suitable Ireland resolution?

I really doubt that very much.

It's not what I voted for, and to be honest, if you think about it, if S, Ireland wanted to be a part of the U.K. in the first place it wouldn't be an issue......

This isn't a trick question or meant to be overly challenging but what would you list as the things you voted for - I think if you could list say 5 solid things you thought you were going to get but wouldn't get via May's deal or 10 things before the referendum you'd be doing a lot better than most of us who voted for Brexit or Tory MPs for that matter

[BigAdz]

We do keep looking at everything from a rather introspective viewpoint. Well at least the remainers do.

They don't seem to look at the big picture of how Europe seems to keep letting more in,(who next? Australia? Israel?)and those who have f all. Someone gotta fund them when they go bust.

Are we, sorry Doobs, claiming that Mays deal had all we wanted,.bar a suitable Ireland resolution?

I really doubt that very much.

It's not what I voted for, and to be honest, if you think about it, if S, Ireland wanted to be a part of the U.K. in the first place it wouldn't be an issue......

This isn't a trick question or meant to be overly challenging but what would you list as the things you voted for - I think if you could list say 5 solid things you thought you were going to get but wouldn't get via May's deal or 10 things before the referendum you'd be doing a lot better than most of us who voted for Brexit or Tory MPs for that matter

I'm sure sure that I know what May has actually asked for, and if you asked most people they would probably say the same.

What I hoped for.

To stop giving money to a union that seems to want more than it was giving back, and looked like getting worse.

Control the rules under which we govern ourselves. Not saying ours our perfect, but we can't hide or smudge issues by being able to blame Brussels.

End the gravy train for our citizens, that is Brussels. Been there many times and it's a joke.

Be able to trade on a more global basis on our terms and as much or as little as we like.

Better control on immigration.

Fishing controls.

No paying into an EU army etc. We still seem to get ourselves in scraps that the EU offer very little support to us in already etc.

Enough?

[nirvana]

We do keep looking at everything from a rather introspective viewpoint. Well at least the remainers do.

They don't seem to look at the big picture of how Europe seems to keep letting more in,(who next? Australia? Israel?)and those who have f all. Someone gotta fund them when they go bust.

Are we, sorry Doobs, claiming that Mays deal had all we wanted,.bar a suitable Ireland resolution?

I really doubt that very much.

It's not what I voted for, and to be honest, if you think about it, if S, Ireland wanted to be a part of the U.K. in the first place it wouldn't be an issue......

This isn't a trick question or meant to be overly challenging but what would you list as the things you voted for - I think if you could list say 5 solid things you thought you were going to get but wouldn't get via May's deal or 10 things before the referendum you'd be doing a lot better than most of us who voted for Brexit or Tory MPs for that matter

I'm sure sure that I know what May has actually asked for, and if you asked most people they would probably say the same.

What I hoped for.

To stop giving money to a union that seems to want more than it was giving back, and looked like getting worse.

Control the rules under which we govern ourselves. Not saying ours our perfect, but we can't hide or smudge issues by being able to blame Brussels.

End the gravy train for our citizens, that is Brussels. Been there many times and it's a joke.

Be able to trade on a more global basis on our terms and as much or as little as we like.

Better control on immigration.

Fishing controls.

No paying into an EU army etc. We still seem to get ourselves in scraps that the EU offer very little support to us in already etc.

Enough?

May's deal does all that I think if you look at with some kind of rational time perspective

[aaron1867]

Brilliant and devastating piece by Matthew Parris on Boris Johnson

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/let-me-assure-you-boris-johnson-will-fail-as-pm-hl7b6tkx5

I am amazed at Boris being the saviour. Wasn't he the first to abandon, what we gathered were ,his principles, and accept TMs watered down version of Brexit when the going got a little tough?

No - David Davis was first to quit, then Boris followed. He’d have never quit if Davis didn’t resign.

If you are going to call me out at least be more accurate than my guesstimate at the timeline and reality. Boris changed his allegiance to the full Brexit deal to follow TMs watery version, DD never actually did.

I never mentioned quitting.....

I have misread your post - stop beng so dramatic! I thought you mentioned who quit after chequers, which it was Davis followed by Johnson. As for Davis, I am sure he also changed to upport the deal in the end?

[aaron1867]

Just been reading more into the Peterborough result and seen some of the recent polling. I wonder if the Brexit Party will regret calling themselves the Breit Party if an election was called this year?

We all know that Brexit is the biggest issue in the country at the moment, but I think people are still voting for domestic issues too. If there is a significant number of people who do that added in with people that mix both domestic & Brexit, then I can't see how BP can do so well in an election. It was pretty much this in the P'boro results, people coming out saying "As soon as Brexit is concluded, you're back on domestic issues". Take nothing away from the progression of the party, but if you look at both results in Europeans and the by-election, it wasn't what we all expected. Brexit Party was on course for 40% in polls, and got 31% and was expected to win P'boro, but didn't.

Polling has showed since the European elections that the BP have led in the polls and so have the Lib Dems. According to the polls Brexit Party would be on for 111 seats, I definitely domestic policy holding the back. So whilst everyone is running scared of the Brexit Party, aren't the Lib Dems the ones to be worried about with the EU policy and domestic policies? There's a tinge of vote Lib Dem get Corbyn, just as much as voting Tory.....

[Jon MW]

Just been reading more into the Peterborough result and seen some of the recent polling. I wonder if the Brexit Party will regret calling themselves the Breit Party if an election was called this year?

We all know that Brexit is the biggest issue in the country at the moment, but I think people are still voting for domestic issues too. If there is a significant number of people who do that added in with people that mix both domestic & Brexit, then I can't see how BP can do so well in an election. It was pretty much this in the P'boro results, people coming out saying "As soon as Brexit is concluded, you're back on domestic issues". Take nothing away from the progression of the party, but if you look at both results in Europeans and the by-election, it wasn't what we all expected. Brexit Party was on course for 40% in polls, and got 31% and was expected to win P'boro, but didn't.

Polling has showed since the European elections that the BP have led in the polls and so have the Lib Dems. According to the polls Brexit Party would be on for 111 seats, I definitely domestic policy holding the back. So whilst everyone is running scared of the Brexit Party, aren't the Lib Dems the ones to be worried about with the EU policy and domestic policies? There's a tinge of vote Lib Dem get Corbyn, just as much as voting Tory.....

My guess would be -
in polling; means absolutely nothing: you have maximum protest = Brexit Party and Lib Dems are massive
in Euro elections - basically means nothing: very strong protest = Brexit Party and Lib Dems are super strong
in By election - means something, but traditional place for a protest vote = Brexit Party does strongly but doesn't win
in General election - actually meaningful = people vote for who they would normally vote for, or abstain. That might still mean a good vote for the Brexit Party and the Lib Dems but nothing significant. I think the best option for the parties concerned is that the Lib Dems go back to their pre-coalition strength.