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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180187 times)
nirvana
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« Reply #19680 on: August 12, 2019, 05:54:07 PM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49321430

Double standard sexist bollocks.

Can you image the outrage if someone suggested an all white men solution?

There’s a excellent book called ‘The Descent of Man’ by Grayson Perry. Lots of it is applicable to situations like this. It doe seem to me that no one gets more outraged about stuff than white middle/old aged men.

I'd imagine in this specific case that plenty of Black and Brown women will be fairly dismissive of the nonsense from Lucas - it doesn't outrage me tbf, but confirms how ridiculous even previously sensible seeming politicians actually are.
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #19681 on: August 12, 2019, 05:55:13 PM »

If there’s an unavoidable temporary hard border due to EU not being able to navigate a tricky negotiating spot Irish people start murdering each other. That’s the outcome we’re being told is stone cold fact?
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« Reply #19682 on: August 12, 2019, 06:00:59 PM »

If there’s an unavoidable temporary hard border due to EU not being able to navigate a tricky negotiating spot Irish people start murdering each other. That’s the outcome we’re being told is stone cold fact?

A small number of people there need barely any reason so it might not be a fact but some level of disturbance would be inevitable I think.

It's a decent reason for people of good will to do the deal that was agreed at some point and stop blaming others for a potential no deal outcome.
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« Reply #19683 on: August 12, 2019, 07:24:50 PM »

Both sides in NI were killing each other for decades. Why did they stop because of the GFA?

Because the GFA allowed both sides to live their lives as if they'd won. Loyalists had it written down in law that the status of NI would never change unless it was the express wish of the majority of the people. The south changed their constitution to remove their claim on the north. On the other side Republicans could live their everyday lives as if they were living in a united Ireland. Cross the border at will, live on one side and work on the other - they could pretend the border wasn't there.

Whereas no deal Brexit brings the border back and removes one side from the carefully negotiated 'everyone wins' solution.
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #19684 on: August 12, 2019, 08:49:44 PM »

ok but then along came the EU and Brexit happened so a whole new reality began. Why are we looking at the past with these history lessons when it was a much simpler Ireland vs Uk coup? Cos beforehand all the violence could perhaps achieve something eg the GFI negotiated between these two parties.

But what would it achieve today with this astonishing new variable and much more complex landscape? To start all the murdering up and pressure 27 member states to capitulate to terror? Just saying it will be as per before is nuts because every aspect has changed massively compared to as per before.

Heck why don’t Ireland just feck off EU membership and hey presto no more murdering each other anymore. It’s just another unsolvable problem EU superstate dreams have created that doesn’t improve by mindless killing and throwing stones at police.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 08:51:46 PM by MANTIS01 » Logged

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« Reply #19685 on: August 12, 2019, 09:01:24 PM »

Both sides in NI were killing each other for decades. Why did they stop because of the GFA?

Because the GFA allowed both sides to live their lives as if they'd won. Loyalists had it written down in law that the status of NI would never change unless it was the express wish of the majority of the people. The south changed their constitution to remove their claim on the north. On the other side Republicans could live their everyday lives as if they were living in a united Ireland. Cross the border at will, live on one side and work on the other - they could pretend the border wasn't there.

Whereas no deal Brexit brings the border back and removes one side from the carefully negotiated 'everyone wins' solution.

This is a good explanation.
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« Reply #19686 on: August 12, 2019, 09:06:54 PM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49321430

Double standard sexist bollocks.

Can you image the outrage if someone suggested an all white men solution?

There’s a excellent book called ‘The Descent of Man’ by Grayson Perry. Lots of it is applicable to situations like this. It doe seem to me that no one gets more outraged about stuff than white middle/old aged men.


If it wasn't for women getting outraged in the first place, then the men would have nothing to react over.

Who do those women think they are, eh?

trying to get equal pay
more boardroom positions
fair maternity
high positions

i'm very surprised to see you still living in the past, lol jk
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« Reply #19687 on: August 12, 2019, 09:13:44 PM »

ok but then along came the EU and Brexit happened so a whole new reality began. Why are we looking at the past with these history lessons when it was a much simpler Ireland vs Uk coup? Cos beforehand all the violence could perhaps achieve something eg the GFI negotiated between these two parties.

But what would it achieve today with this astonishing new variable and much more complex landscape? To start all the murdering up and pressure 27 member states to capitulate to terror? Just saying it will be as per before is nuts because every aspect has changed massively compared to as per before.

Heck why don’t Ireland just feck off EU membership and hey presto no more murdering each other anymore. It’s just another unsolvable problem EU superstate dreams have created that doesn’t improve by mindless killing and throwing stones at police.

I’ve been trying to take a break from pointing what utter nonsense all of your posts are but this is next level ridiculous. The troubles began in ~1968, Ireland joined the EEC in 1973, the GFA was signed in 1998. Being a member of the EU is obviously not something Ireland will ever give up.
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« Reply #19688 on: August 12, 2019, 09:59:31 PM »

ok but then along came the EU and Brexit happened so a whole new reality began. Why are we looking at the past with these history lessons when it was a much simpler Ireland vs Uk coup? Cos beforehand all the violence could perhaps achieve something eg the GFI negotiated between these two parties.

But what would it achieve today with this astonishing new variable and much more complex landscape? To start all the murdering up and pressure 27 member states to capitulate to terror? Just saying it will be as per before is nuts because every aspect has changed massively compared to as per before.

Heck why don’t Ireland just feck off EU membership and hey presto no more murdering each other anymore. It’s just another unsolvable problem EU superstate dreams have created that doesn’t improve by mindless killing and throwing stones at police.

I’ve been trying to take a break from pointing what utter nonsense all of your posts are but this is next level ridiculous. The troubles began in ~1968, Ireland joined the EEC in 1973, the GFA was signed in 1998. Being a member of the EU is obviously not something Ireland will ever give up.


Lol. Obviously googled set of dates because the troubles in Ireland started way before  that Kush. Did Google not tel you about Michael Collins and when the IRA really started?
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« Reply #19689 on: August 12, 2019, 10:12:10 PM »

Just saying “utter nonsense” doesn’t present viable solutions to complex problems, it’s just wah wah wahing.

Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty in their own referendum. Their relationship with EU has always been strained. Two thirds of their trade is outside EU. UK is their most vital trading partner and closest neighbour. Oh and of course Brexit will cause Irish folk to snap murder each other.

But obv they won’t give up EU membership just because they joined in 1973 (just like we did). Great point.
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« Reply #19690 on: August 12, 2019, 10:25:57 PM »

Just saying “utter nonsense” doesn’t present viable solutions to complex problems, it’s just wah wah wahing.

Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty in their own referendum. Their relationship with EU has always been strained. Two thirds of their trade is outside EU. UK is their most vital trading partner and closest neighbour. Oh and of course Brexit will cause Irish folk to snap murder each other.

But obv they won’t give up EU membership just because they joined in 1973 (just like we did). Great point.

Membership of the EU made the GFA possible. The UK is a signatory to the GFA, it is the UK who is jeopardising the GFA. Until the border issue can be resolved, the backstop is a perfectly reasonable way forward. As stated over and over and over, the people who say a technological border solution won’t be a problem are exactly the same people who won’t sign up to the backstop. They haven’t been able to explain why.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #19691 on: August 12, 2019, 10:33:21 PM »

ok but then along came the EU and Brexit happened so a whole new reality began. Why are we looking at the past with these history lessons when it was a much simpler Ireland vs Uk coup? Cos beforehand all the violence could perhaps achieve something eg the GFI negotiated between these two parties.

But what would it achieve today with this astonishing new variable and much more complex landscape? To start all the murdering up and pressure 27 member states to capitulate to terror? Just saying it will be as per before is nuts because every aspect has changed massively compared to as per before.

Heck why don’t Ireland just feck off EU membership and hey presto no more murdering each other anymore. It’s just another unsolvable problem EU superstate dreams have created that doesn’t improve by mindless killing and throwing stones at police.

I’ve been trying to take a break from pointing what utter nonsense all of your posts are but this is next level ridiculous. The troubles began in ~1968, Ireland joined the EEC in 1973, the GFA was signed in 1998. Being a member of the EU is obviously not something Ireland will ever give up.


Lol. Obviously googled set of dates because the troubles in Ireland started way before  that Kush. Did Google not tel you about Michael Collins and when the IRA really started?

My Irish history is sound enough, I’m familiar with Michael Collins. I check every date I write down, not sure why anyone would do anything different, not much point writing something wrong is there? There was a period of violent conflict that started in 1968 and ended in 1998, it was commonly known as The Troubles, it was ended by the GFA.
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« Reply #19692 on: August 12, 2019, 10:33:43 PM »

John Bolton visiting UK says USA “enthusiastically support” No Deal and that a bumper sector by sector trade deal will be a priority

Think it was last year a poll in Ireland showed 40% of population valued free trade & movement with UK over EU membership. After Brexit when we start smashing it and Ireland is drowning without those valuable luxuries that % moves into majority territory. EU crumbling to be sure to be sure.
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« Reply #19693 on: August 12, 2019, 10:42:39 PM »

Wto rules do not allow sector by sector trade deals

See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38658025
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« Reply #19694 on: August 12, 2019, 10:45:25 PM »

Furthermore for the nth time, if we effectively nix the GFA, no US trade deal is getting through house/ congress because of the Irish lobby

Been posted lots of times on here, with direct quotes that this is the case from Pelosi's democrats
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