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Poll
Question: How will you vote on June 8th 2017
Conservative - 30 (28%)
Labour - 37 (34.6%)
Lib Dem - 13 (12.1%)
UKIP - 1 (0.9%)
Green - 1 (0.9%)
Nationalist party eg SNP, Plaid - 10 (9.3%)
Don't intend to vote - 4 (3.7%)
I really don't know yet - 11 (10.3%)
Total Voters: 107

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 855142 times)
kukushkin88
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« Reply #19980 on: August 22, 2019, 08:09:28 PM »

Is it a problem?

He has 30 days to provide a solution.

Doesn’t matter what anybody says.

He doesn’t have 30 days though. I’m just not keen on the post truth world.
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nirvana
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« Reply #19981 on: August 22, 2019, 08:14:14 PM »

So who blinks first.. The EU, Bojo and Co,  or the rest of parliament.
2 out of 3 serious runners but can't pick.

no one blinks and its no deal by default?

otherwise

EU shouldn't blink, or not easy to blink without shafting Ireland
Parliament will try to block but its a shambles of competing interests and party biases.
Boris and co might blink. try to get a few concessions, stick some lipstick and a blonde wig on the WA and present it as a new deal?

I think the EU could blink but it probably shouldn't bother in the face of chummy bants - having gotten to this ludicrous point it probably is incumbent on the UK to propose solutions - otoh, Daniel Hannan put it quite well the other day - to paraphrase, something like ...EU says we have to sign up to various things (incl backstop) to avoid a hard border and if we don't they'll put in a hard border. It really is such nonsense and not much goodwill kicking around anywhere.

You'd think the shambles of blockers, 2nd reffers, etc had the most to give by giving up on their (un)principled objections to any kind of deal, desist from helping us towards no immediate deal, and vote through the provisionally agreed deal.

Don't think Bo and Co have any opportunity to bring back a deal, of their own volition, and get it through. Think they'd need very clear signals from 30 plus labour MPs that they would support it and that doesn't feel likely.

Having thought about it again maybe no-one blinks is a third serious contender.

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nirvana
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« Reply #19982 on: August 22, 2019, 08:19:11 PM »

If we leave without a deal, what happens with the Irish border?

Potentially a hard border ie checkpoints, barriers, customs officials. This violates the GFA. Whilst Boris says he would not do it, the ROI probably would as part of the EU to protect the integrity of the single market.

Would the rump of republican dissidents start bombing the EU/Irish erected checkpoints and killing the customs officials or would they be so deranged about the potential breeches of the integrity of the single market that they'd just bomb the people in the North who didn't put up a border.
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« Reply #19983 on: August 22, 2019, 08:30:33 PM »

I know everyone loves the Daily Mail.....

Emmanuel Macron says 'Oui!': French president backs Angela Merkel's plan to give Boris Johnson 30 days to come up with an alternative to the backstop - but suggests he doesn't think the UK WILL find a solution 

Pound has surged a smidge also.

You can't surge a smidge, it's a contradiction in terms.

You can in currency markets!
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #19984 on: August 23, 2019, 08:41:05 AM »


Good morning,

Seems to now be some sanity on the phantom 30 day deadline:

https://www.ft.com/content/1758aee0-c4e7-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9

It doesn’t exist, no matter how much Boris and The Telegraph want it to.

Cliffs: The backstop stays until the border problem is resolved, it might take 2 years, it might take 3 years, it might take 30 days, it might take until Oct 31st 2019.



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kukushkin88
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« Reply #19985 on: August 23, 2019, 09:01:24 AM »


Good morning,

Seems to now be some sanity on the phantom 30 day deadline:

https://www.ft.com/content/1758aee0-c4e7-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9

It doesn’t exist, no matter how much Boris and The Telegraph want it to.

Cliffs: The backstop stays until the border problem is resolved, it might take 2 years, it might take 3 years, it might take 30 days, it might take until Oct 31st 2019.


Or any and every other date, of course.
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BigAdz
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« Reply #19986 on: August 23, 2019, 09:33:48 AM »


Good morning,

Seems to now be some sanity on the phantom 30 day deadline:

https://www.ft.com/content/1758aee0-c4e7-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9

It doesn’t exist, no matter how much Boris and The Telegraph want it to.

Cliffs: The backstop stays until the border problem is resolved, it might take 2 years, it might take 3 years, it might take 30 days, it might take until Oct 31st 2019.






It has a paywall so not a lot of use.

However, in broader terms, it is still the words of a paper you chose to follow, what makes it any more robust than the words of the other paper?
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MANTIS01
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What kind of fuckery is this?


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« Reply #19987 on: August 23, 2019, 09:38:58 AM »

tbf it’s prob worth paying the subscription for insider wizard info such as “it might take 2 years, it might take 3 years, it might take 30 days, it might take until Oct 31st”
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« Reply #19988 on: August 23, 2019, 09:47:36 AM »

tbf it’s prob worth paying the subscription for insider wizard info such as “it might take 2 years, it might take 3 years, it might take 30 days, it might take until Oct 31st”

Paying for the FT subscription would be an excellent idea for everyone. All of those potential timescales were put forward by Merkel in the last 48 hours.

(I don’t think that article is behind the paywall)
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« Reply #19989 on: August 23, 2019, 10:04:29 AM »

tbf it’s prob worth paying the subscription for insider wizard info such as “it might take 2 years, it might take 3 years, it might take 30 days, it might take until Oct 31st”

Paying for the FT subscription would be an excellent idea for everyone. All of those potential timescales were put forward by Merkel in the last 48 hours.

(I don’t think that article is behind the paywall)

Why would the FT subscription be such an excellent idea? What makes it more valid than the Guardian say,  or dare I say it, The Telegraph.


The article you linked to is behind the paywall btw.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #19990 on: August 23, 2019, 11:02:16 AM »

tbf it’s prob worth paying the subscription for insider wizard info such as “it might take 2 years, it might take 3 years, it might take 30 days, it might take until Oct 31st”

Paying for the FT subscription would be an excellent idea for everyone. All of those potential timescales were put forward by Merkel in the last 48 hours.

(I don’t think that article is behind the paywall)

Why would the FT subscription be such an excellent idea? What makes it more valid than the Guardian say,  or dare I say it, The Telegraph.


The article you linked to is behind the paywall btw.

I guess it just comes down to integrity and lack of political bias. A simple way to think of it for me is that a newspaper shouldn’t be pro or anti Brexit.

Look at the front pages every day at the moment, they can’t all be telling the truth, so who is lying and why? The Telegraph unfortunately has become a joke with its extreme pro-Boris agenda, as recently as ~4 years ago it was still a serious newspaper. The Guardian has a left and anti Brexit bias and would be better off without it (they do make some effort to separate news from opinion).

I will note every time the headline on the front of The Telegraph or Guardian is provably and wilfully (when we can additionally prove that they know they are lying) untrue.
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« Reply #19991 on: August 23, 2019, 11:07:42 AM »

tbf it’s prob worth paying the subscription for insider wizard info such as “it might take 2 years, it might take 3 years, it might take 30 days, it might take until Oct 31st”

Paying for the FT subscription would be an excellent idea for everyone. All of those potential timescales were put forward by Merkel in the last 48 hours.

(I don’t think that article is behind the paywall)

Why would the FT subscription be such an excellent idea? What makes it more valid than the Guardian say,  or dare I say it, The Telegraph.


The article you linked to is behind the paywall btw.

I guess it just comes down to integrity and lack of political bias. A simple way to think of it for me is that a newspaper shouldn’t be pro or anti Brexit.

Look at the front pages every day at the moment, they can’t all be telling the truth, so who is lying and why? The Telegraph unfortunately has become a joke with its extreme pro-Boris agenda, as recently as ~4 years ago it was still a serious newspaper. The Guardian has a left and anti Brexit bias and would be better off without it (they do make some effort to separate news from opinion).

I will note every time the headline on the front of The Telegraph or Guardian is provably and wilfully (when we can additionally prove that they know they are lying) untrue.


Unfortunately Ku, all newspapers are pro whatever sells more newspapers.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #19992 on: August 23, 2019, 11:17:38 AM »

tbf it’s prob worth paying the subscription for insider wizard info such as “it might take 2 years, it might take 3 years, it might take 30 days, it might take until Oct 31st”

Paying for the FT subscription would be an excellent idea for everyone. All of those potential timescales were put forward by Merkel in the last 48 hours.

(I don’t think that article is behind the paywall)

Why would the FT subscription be such an excellent idea? What makes it more valid than the Guardian say,  or dare I say it, The Telegraph.


The article you linked to is behind the paywall btw.

I guess it just comes down to integrity and lack of political bias. A simple way to think of it for me is that a newspaper shouldn’t be pro or anti Brexit.

Look at the front pages every day at the moment, they can’t all be telling the truth, so who is lying and why? The Telegraph unfortunately has become a joke with its extreme pro-Boris agenda, as recently as ~4 years ago it was still a serious newspaper. The Guardian has a left and anti Brexit bias and would be better off without it (they do make some effort to separate news from opinion).

I will note every time the headline on the front of The Telegraph or Guardian is provably and wilfully (when we can additionally prove that they know they are lying) untrue.


Unfortunately Ku, all newspapers are pro whatever sells more newspapers.

The FT argue, quite credibly imo, that they aren’t.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2015/07/23/opinion/the-financial-times-will-be-in-good-hands.amp.html

Their own explanation is behind the paywall......

You’re are mostly right though I’m sure, the 30 days nonsense was an excellent example, even the BBC and Guardian were on board, it can only be that they feared their news outlets missing out on the exposure.

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MANTIS01
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What kind of fuckery is this?


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« Reply #19993 on: August 23, 2019, 12:04:02 PM »

So really posting links to most media is a waste of time

Feel sorry for Tighty wasting all that time posting links to The Guardian with their anti Brexit bias
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« Reply #19994 on: August 23, 2019, 12:11:30 PM »

So really posting links to most media is a waste of time

Feel sorry for Tighty wasting all that time posting links to The Guardian with their anti Brexit bias

Tighty is a smart guy, if it is his view that something is worthwhile, I always take a look. I won’t always agree but years of experience have told me that I think he is an astute judge, so I think it worthwhile to look at every link/post.
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