The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[MANTIS01]

Yes, that's what the English court said but whatever else it might mean in practice, senior judges in Scotland have ruled the the Prime Minister deliberately tried to frustrate Parliament for his own ends, then lied about it to the Queen and the country. 

Interesting times. Normally that would obviously play pretty badly but in this people v politicians type environment presumably it doesn't play badly to his core vote..ie he did it as a means to an end which is to get Brexit through with no further delays

I probably am part of his core vote to be fair 

Are we not saying that the Queen is pretty thick if she has been misled on this though?

Also based on that paragraph, his motives were politically driven, so he is allowed to prorogue as he see's fit?

It’s a formality that she approves it, it was always going to be for the courts to decide if she was misled. I don’t think anyone doubts the reasons that were given are dishonest. The Supreme Court case will be interesting for sure.

EU decide how UK should operate on a range of issues
Remain decide what’s best for UK despite referendum
Courts decide what our Queen was thinking

Kinda see a pattern here..

[neeko]

Should the govt be able to prorogue parliament prior to a Queens speech, Yes of course.
Did Mr Johnson do it for 5 weeks so he could avoid questions in parliament, Yes.
Should the Supreme Court reverse the 5 week proroguing? Probably not, perhaps force it to be 2 weeks, but meh.
Will everyone complain whatever the result? yes

[Jon MW]

Should the govt be able to prorogue parliament prior to a Queens speech, Yes of course.
Did Mr Johnson do it for 5 weeks so he could avoid questions in parliament, Yes.
Should the Supreme Court reverse the 5 week proroguing? Probably not, perhaps force it to be 2 weeks, but meh.
Will everyone complain whatever the result? yes

There was an act of Parliament in the 19th century specifically about the rules on proroguing Parliament, it was superceded by the Representation of the People Act (and parts of that have probably been updated since then) - but it all only applies to General Elections.

What would probably make sense would be if they just revised the existing legislation to include a few clauses about proroguing Parliament at the end of the sessions as well as a prelude to a General Election (and probably some other bits of Parliamentary convention that could be tidied up and specified at the same time).

[TightEnd]

The Yellowhammer has landed:
https://t.co/z0rgHFhcWc

[TightEnd]

Released as ordered by Mondays vote. No prorogation material yet

[TightEnd]

One example

Yellowhammer doc confirms that there would be medical supply shortages in event of no deal because they’re so dependent on Dover crossing. They say the govt cannot stockpile all the medicines that we need.

[BigAdz]

One example

Yellowhammer doc confirms that there would be medical supply shortages in event of no deal because they’re so dependent on Dover crossing. They say the govt cannot stockpile all the medicines that we need.

I did post about this a few weeks ago but it obviously fell on deaf ears.

The head of the FRENCH customs department was on the radio reporting how a scheme to ensure all the paperwork done at crossing time can be done in departure offices and online.

He also pointed out that as 33%  of all lorries have no cargo, as they are returning empty, it shouldn't slow down any current process, it may even speed it up.

I notice that Yelowhammer doesn't mention this.

Didn't even take much research.

[bunnydas8888]

One example

Yellowhammer doc confirms that there would be medical supply shortages in event of no deal because they’re so dependent on Dover crossing. They say the govt cannot stockpile all the medicines that we need.

I did post about this a few weeks ago but it obviously fell on deaf ears.

The head of the FRENCH customs department was on the radio reporting how a scheme to ensure all the paperwork done at crossing time can be done in departure offices and online.

He also pointed out that as 33%  of all lorries have no cargo, as they are returning empty, it shouldn't slow down any current process, it may even speed it up.

I notice that Yelowhammer doesn't mention this.

Didn't even take much research.

I think part of the problem is that no one knows what will happen. All well and good being able to do it in an office, but if you set off on 31st Oct & reach the border at 23:59, you might suddenly not have any of the right documents.

The yellow hammer doc also states that business readiness is likely to be low, because this whole thing has dragged on for so long & people don't know what to expect, so would take (a short time) for businesses to catch up


*edit*
Also worth remembering this is not what will definitely happen if we do have a no deal exit, it's a worst case scenario

[Pokerpops]

One example

Yellowhammer doc confirms that there would be medical supply shortages in event of no deal because they’re so dependent on Dover crossing. They say the govt cannot stockpile all the medicines that we need.

Yellowhammer doc confirms that there could be medical supply shortages if no efforts are made to mitigate the effects of disruption to the short straits crossing.

Yellowhammer doc also says that DHSC is developing a multi-layered approach to mitigate these risks. It would actually be more worrying if the govt hadn’t been concerned.

Personally I have next to no requirement for medication if I ignore the anti-depressants. I understand that for people who rely upon their meds, or who have family who do, this is all f considerable concern. But the issue has been anticipated and is being addressed. As long as it’s not Chris Grayling doing the planning we can hope it will all be ok.

** I really don’t intend to minimise this because I understand the concerns.

[tikay]

Parliament suspension: Government refuses to publish No 10 communications

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49670123

[TightEnd]

One example

Yellowhammer doc confirms that there would be medical supply shortages in event of no deal because they’re so dependent on Dover crossing. They say the govt cannot stockpile all the medicines that we need.

I did post about this a few weeks ago but it obviously fell on deaf ears.

The head of the FRENCH customs department was on the radio reporting how a scheme to ensure all the paperwork done at crossing time can be done in departure offices and online.

He also pointed out that as 33%  of all lorries have no cargo, as they are returning empty, it shouldn't slow down any current process, it may even speed it up.

I notice that Yelowhammer doesn't mention this.

Didn't even take much research.

I think part of the problem is that no one knows what will happen. All well and good being able to do it in an office, but if you set off on 31st Oct & reach the border at 23:59, you might suddenly not have any of the right documents.

The yellow hammer doc also states that business readiness is likely to be low, because this whole thing has dragged on for so long & people don't know what to expect, so would take (a short time) for businesses to catch up


*edit*
Also worth remembering this is not what will definitely happen if we do have a no deal exit, it's a worst case scenario

On 5th August the same document appeared in the Sunday times headlined Base Scenario. Headlined changed in the release today lol.

6 Page's cannot be the complete report either, this is an executive summary essentially

Go back a few years and I feel confident that no responsible government would even contemplate this with public health and public order concerns particularly relevant to that view.

Times have changed

[aaron1867]

I look at every position of each party & all I can see is the inability to compromise. But chuff me, the Lib Dem new position and Jo Swinson herself.

Moving to an all out policy of revoking isn’t acceptable. I’m all for remaining, but not just revoking. I contradict myself slightly as I said there has to be a point of revoking if we’re still at deadlock in many months time, but revoking isn’t fair.

All I’m thinking of in this election is who I’m going to vote for? Absolute no for Labour or Tory. Then the LD position isn’t one I now agree with, even though weeks ago I assumed I’d give in and vote for them.

[nirvana]

I still don't get why inward flows will be affected at all - part of UK mitigation could easily be to carry on as we are now with European imports - why would we generate the issue - there's just no logic here that anyone can explain to me

[MANTIS01]

One example

Yellowhammer doc confirms that there would be medical supply shortages in event of no deal because they’re so dependent on Dover crossing. They say the govt cannot stockpile all the medicines that we need.

Yep they confirm that the problem is the reliance on a single route...not the global availability of goods

So a big benefit of Brexit is that our reliance on a single route can be drastically mitigated...thus solving the problem EU membership brings

[Doobs]

I still don't get why inward flows will be affected at all - part of UK mitigation could easily be to carry on as we are now with European imports - why would we generate the issue - there's just no logic here that anyone can explain to me

Under WTO rules don't you have to treat all countries the same, so you allow EU goods flow freely and tariff free... so you have to let US goods flow freely and tariff free... so you have to let chinese goods flow freely and tariff free?   So business as usual isn't possible.   Good luck getting a US trade deal when you are already letting their goods in tariff free.