The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[MintTrav]

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I mean, I get that Obama is entitled to his view, but I doubt he would be expressing it in this country were it contrary to the Remain campaign.

Don't worry David. Marine Le Pen is coming to give her support for your side.

I think it is both dangerous, and on a personal level insulting, to assume that all who are minded to vote to leave are motivated to do so by some xenophobic impulse or other.

I don't think that at all. I think some believe the country would be better off financially, some think we would have more independence, some think the current system is undemocratic and overly bureaucratic, and so on. They are all wrong in their thinking,  in my view,  but I don't think that they are xenophobic or racist. Most of them, anyway. But I didn't make it up about Marine. She is really coming to support the Brexit campaign.

[MintTrav]

Liam Fox - Friday:
"Whoever it is that will be at the helm of the United States won't be Barack Obama. It will be the next President, and the next Congress, who will be in charge of any trade arrangements."

Jake Sullivan, senior policy advisor to Hillary Clinton - Sunday:
"Hillary Clinton believes that transatlantic co-operation is essential, and that co-operation is strongest when Europe is united. She has always valued a strong United Kingdom in a strong EU. And she values a strong British voice in the EU."

Her staff have also been briefing that she fully supports Obama's opposition to Brexit.

[TightEnd]

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[TightEnd]

IN now a 70% chance of the winning according to Betfair punters. On Wednesday it was 62%

[nirvana]

Still undecided but found the debate around immigration with Theresa May on the Marr show pretty interesting.

I've never been concerned about immigration as I've always felt it finds a natural equilibrium where the country gets what it needs (cheap labour and also skills) and the person coming here is economically advantaged too.

Anyway, what I found interesting is how difficult Theresa May found it to just admit that she cannot do anything to make a significant dent in immigration numbers.

In a way - it's surprising how little the leave campaign makes of this. Whatever the gamut of reasons a 'leaver' may have it would be better for their ends if they just continued to bang an anti mass immigration drum - it can't be refuted by the remainers.

The only risk is being called racist but most of the leavers could deal with that if they stopped crying every time someone called them a racist.

[PokerBroker]

In a way - it's surprising how little the leave campaign makes of this. Whatever the gamut of reasons a 'leaver' may have it would be better for their ends if they just continued to bang an anti mass immigration drum - it can't be refuted by the remainers.

Nt true though, UKIP have been doing this from the beginning. 

I'd happilly swap all the Tories for more foreigners. 

[RickBFA]

Think its fair to say that whilst the remain leaders wheel out the big guns and throw everything at it, the leave campaign has been disjointed and a bit of a PR joke.

[TightEnd]

Think its fair to say that whilst the remain leaders wheel out the big guns and throw everything at it, the leave campaign has been disjointed and a bit of a PR joke.

there is a huge difference in the organisation of the two campaigns

there has been one remain campaign throughout. it has government support and was able to deliver £9m of leaflets early

behind this campaign is also the very highly attuned party electoral apparatus, which has mobilised facebook really well for example. Some of the labour remain people got to see how it operated recently and suddenly it made sense of how much of a disadvantage they were in the 2015 election

meanwhile leave had three campaigns, which hated each other. in amongst the sensible politicians like Gove a lot of the PR goes to Farage, Galloway etc who just look extreme and are prone to saying odd stuff

Boris was their x-factor but got badly outplayed by Remain/Obama last week. He appeals to the leave core base, but leave isnt going to win with the 40% core base, it needs to win over more of the dont knows than remain does

and remain is playing the "risks to the economy" card, which typically wins general elections, to perfection

ten weeks ago Boris had the chance to back cameron and in return get a really big cabinet job post referendum. not so now.

[4KSuited]

The bookmakers rarely get these things so dramatically wrong, so it seems that we are to remain.

What troubles me is that the vast majority of the speeches/statements/articles are being presented by the political classes, who by definition will not want to de-rail the EU gravy train. Since the "leavers" are broadly represented by a gaggle of misfits, those lacking political gravitas, they are losing on points in every round of this fight. It would have been a more interesting/fair contest if the politicians were banned from participating in the debate.

[TightEnd]

[nirvana]

In a way - it's surprising how little the leave campaign makes of this. Whatever the gamut of reasons a 'leaver' may have it would be better for their ends if they just continued to bang an anti mass immigration drum - it can't be refuted by the remainers.

Nt true though, UKIP have been doing this from the beginning. 

I'd happilly swap all the Tories for more foreigners. 

Not nearly loudly and clearly enough and keep getting side-tracked into discussions around economics etc.

Anyway, I guess this will go the way of most things and the political elite, which includes 90% of labour politicans by the way, will maintain the status quo.

[PokerBroker]

I was almost tempted to spite vote out because of the scare tactics but there has been no positive case made by leave as to why we should. 

Thought this was a good take on Obamagate

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2016/04/23/obamas-slam-a-ding-dong/

[MintTrav]

The bookmakers rarely get these things so dramatically wrong, so it seems that we are to remain.

What troubles me is that the vast majority of the speeches/statements/articles are being presented by the political classes, who by definition will not want to de-rail the EU gravy train. Since the "leavers" are broadly represented by a gaggle of misfits, those lacking political gravitas, they are losing on points in every round of this fight. It would have been a more interesting/fair contest if the politicians were banned from participating in the debate.

It has to be led by politicians. But you have almost everyone of any stature on one side, including the Nationalists in Wales and Scotland, while the other side is a collection of odd-bods. The only credible names I can think of for Brexit are David Owen and David Davis. One of the best performers, Suzanne Evans, has been sidelined. When Gove, Grayling and IDS are the best frontmen for your campaign, you have a problem. I can't even think who else they have who has any credibility - Kate Hoey and Carswell are borderline. After that, it's the weirdos and nutters roll-call - Galloway/Farage/Boris/Priti/Whittingdale/the DUP. They remind me of this lot:

Click to see full-size image.

[RickBFA]

Just watched the BBC Obama interview.

Good old BBC send Huw Edwards, that hard hitting, well known political interviewer to conduct it.

Huw was clearly happy to be there, laughing, smiling and nodding. What a joke.

They could have sent someone to press him on the issues, but he got a nice, gentle interview. No need to upset our friends eh?

[nirvana]

Just watched the BBC Obama interview.

Good old BBC send Huw Edwards, that hard hitting, well known political interviewer to conduct it.

Huw was clearly happy to be there, laughing, smiling and nodding. What a joke.

They could have sent someone to press him on the issues, but he got a nice, gentle interview. No need to upset our friends eh?

Haha, he was a little too deferential I thought.