The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[RickBFA]

I'm still not sure which way to vote on EU but Obama has wound me up.

WTF has it got to do with him, intervening like this. Cheeky twat.

Do we intervene over US policy on say Mexico immigration or gay rights or the death penalty.

His effective threat to fuck us over on a trade agreement makes me more not less like to vote to leave.

They are our mates, they will sort us out when it comes to it.

Obamas on his way out in a few months and wants to help his mate DC, that's the long and short of it.

He is trying to protect America's business interest and doesn't want Europe to pull itself apart politically, as if we go the European project could start to unravel.

Helping Cameron out is secondary.

His direct comments and aggressive intervention on this are bang out of order. Attempting to bully/frighten people into voting to stay.

[david3103]

I'm still not sure which way to vote on EU but Obama has wound me up.

WTF has it got to do with him, intervening like this. Cheeky twat.

Do we intervene over US policy on say Mexico immigration or gay rights or the death penalty.

His effective threat to fuck us over on a trade agreement makes me more not less like to vote to leave.

They are our mates, they will sort us out when it comes to it.

Obamas on his way out in a few months and wants to help his mate DC, that's the long and short of it.

He is trying to protect America's business interest and doesn't want Europe to pull itself apart politically, as if we go the European project could start to unravel.

Helping Cameron out is secondary.

His direct comments and aggressive intervention on this are bang out of order. Attempting to bully/frighten people into voting to stay.

The Americans want us included in TTIP and that's easier for them if we're in the EU.

[doubleup]

I'm still not sure which way to vote on EU but Obama has wound me up.

WTF has it got to do with him, intervening like this. Cheeky twat.

Do we intervene over US policy on say Mexico immigration or gay rights or the death penalty.

His effective threat to fuck us over on a trade agreement makes me more not less like to vote to leave.

They are our mates, they will sort us out when it comes to it.

Obamas on his way out in a few months and wants to help his mate DC, that's the long and short of it.

He is trying to protect America's business interest and doesn't want Europe to pull itself apart politically, as if we go the European project could start to unravel.

Helping Cameron out is secondary.

His direct comments and aggressive intervention on this are bang out of order. Attempting to bully/frighten people into voting to stay.

The Americans want us included in TTIP and that's easier for them if we're in the EU.

Easier? - TTIP is an EU/US treaty.  If we aren't in the EU we aren't in it.  And the US (and everyone else) simply isn't going to be in a hurry to start new negotiations.  So we are going to be trading on the basis of wto tariffs with the associated destruction of jobs and investment, just because a bunch of pensioners hate johnny foreigner.

[MintTrav]

Journalists put the 'who are you to tell us what to do?' question to Obama at the press conference, not quite as bluntly as that.

He referred to the recurring vision from Brexiters that an out-of-EU Britain could instead get in closer with its 'natural' partner, the USA. Obama was here to say that ain't happening. There are several other countries who also view the US as their natural partner. From the States' point of view, we are just one of many. 

"They're voicing an opinion about what the United States is going to do. I thought, why not hear from the President of the United States what the United States is going to do."

[RickBFA]

I'm still not sure which way to vote on EU but Obama has wound me up.

WTF has it got to do with him, intervening like this. Cheeky twat.

Do we intervene over US policy on say Mexico immigration or gay rights or the death penalty.

His effective threat to fuck us over on a trade agreement makes me more not less like to vote to leave.

They are our mates, they will sort us out when it comes to it.

Obamas on his way out in a few months and wants to help his mate DC, that's the long and short of it.

He is trying to protect America's business interest and doesn't want Europe to pull itself apart politically, as if we go the European project could start to unravel.

Helping Cameron out is secondary.

His direct comments and aggressive intervention on this are bang out of order. Attempting to bully/frighten people into voting to stay.

The Americans want us included in TTIP and that's easier for them if we're in the EU.

Easier? - TTIP is an EU/US treaty.  If we aren't in the EU we aren't in it.  And the US (and everyone else) simply isn't going to be in a hurry to start new negotiations.  So we are going to be trading on the basis of wto tariffs with the associated destruction of jobs and investment, just because a bunch of pensioners hate johnny foreigner.

"because a bunch of pensioners hate johnny foreigner" is a rather simplistic and silly statement, and of course you know that.

That type of stereotyping is a pretty poor post to be honest.

On trade, the US might be more awkward to deal with but the EU will want to do a trade deal before any transitional period ends. We've debated this before - Germany and France will not screw over their own businesses who export significantly more to us than we sell to them. The idea they wont is just scaremongering.

[doubleup]

"because a bunch of pensioners hate johnny foreigner" is a rather simplistic and silly statement, and of course you know that.

see the bar chart Tightend posted - it is quite clear that dislike of immigrants is the primary motivation for brexitists.

the EU will want to do a trade deal before any transitional period ends

There is no evidence whatsoever for that.  Trade will continue, but with WTO tariffs.  France and Germany will exclude the UK from euro financial transactions, so the extra investment and jobs from this area will more than outweigh the marginal reduction in other exports due to tariffs.

[david3103]

"because a bunch of pensioners hate johnny foreigner" is a rather simplistic and silly statement, and of course you know that.

see the bar chart Tightend posted - it is quite clear that dislike of immigrants is the primary motivation for brexitists.

the EU will want to do a trade deal before any transitional period ends

There is no evidence whatsoever for that.  Trade will continue, but with WTO tariffs.  France and Germany will exclude the UK from euro financial transactions, so the extra investment and jobs from this area will more than outweigh the marginal reduction in other exports due to tariffs.

That chart raises far more questions than it answers. Who produced it and what was the methodology for one two

[RickBFA]

"because a bunch of pensioners hate johnny foreigner" is a rather simplistic and silly statement, and of course you know that.

see the bar chart Tightend posted - it is quite clear that dislike of immigrants is the primary motivation for brexitists.

the EU will want to do a trade deal before any transitional period ends

There is no evidence whatsoever for that.  Trade will continue, but with WTO tariffs.  France and Germany will exclude the UK from euro financial transactions, so the extra investment and jobs from this area will more than outweigh the marginal reduction in other exports due to tariffs.

Germany export £30 billion more to us than they import from us.

Tariffs work both ways.

I can imagine the German Government would have fun selling the deal to their big manufacturing exporters.

Germany will want to do a deal.

[DMorgan]

For those that follow political blogs/news outlets, can anyone point me towards a well rounded and articulate argument for Brexit?

Complete with examples of things that have actually happened that are against our national interest would be great.

Know thine enemy and all that...

[doubleup]

"because a bunch of pensioners hate johnny foreigner" is a rather simplistic and silly statement, and of course you know that.

see the bar chart Tightend posted - it is quite clear that dislike of immigrants is the primary motivation for brexitists.

the EU will want to do a trade deal before any transitional period ends

There is no evidence whatsoever for that.  Trade will continue, but with WTO tariffs.  France and Germany will exclude the UK from euro financial transactions, so the extra investment and jobs from this area will more than outweigh the marginal reduction in other exports due to tariffs.

Germany export £30 billion more to us than they import from us.

Tariffs work both ways.

I can imagine the German Government would have fun selling the deal to their big manufacturing exporters.

Germany will want to do a deal.

Tariffs are marginal, they will still export plenty to the UK.  There is no chance whatsoever that they will tolerate the UK being in the single market without the rules and jurisdiction of the EU court.  There will be no "free trade" deal.

[vegaslover]

I'm still not sure which way to vote on EU but Obama has wound me up.

WTF has it got to do with him, intervening like this. Cheeky twat.

Do we intervene over US policy on say Mexico immigration or gay rights or the death penalty.

His effective threat to fuck us over on a trade agreement makes me more not less like to vote to leave.

They are our mates, they will sort us out when it comes to it.

Obamas on his way out in a few months and wants to help his mate DC, that's the long and short of it.

He is trying to protect America's business interest and doesn't want Europe to pull itself apart politically, as if we go the European project could start to unravel.

Helping Cameron out is secondary.

His direct comments and aggressive intervention on this are bang out of order. Attempting to bully/frighten people into voting to stay.

If Cameron was for the Leave party, not a hope in hell Obama comes out saying you should stay.

[doubleup]

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[david3103]

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I mean, I get that Obama is entitled to his view, but I doubt he would be expressing it in this country were it contrary to the Remain campaign.

[MintTrav]

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I mean, I get that Obama is entitled to his view, but I doubt he would be expressing it in this country were it contrary to the Remain campaign.

Don't worry David. Marine Le Pen is coming to give her support for your side.

[david3103]

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I mean, I get that Obama is entitled to his view, but I doubt he would be expressing it in this country were it contrary to the Remain campaign.

Don't worry David. Marine Le Pen is coming to give her support for your side.

I think it is both dangerous, and on a personal level insulting, to assume that all who are minded to vote to leave are motivated to do so by some xenophobic impulse or other.