The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[kukushkin88]

In terms of sustained repeated lies, Boris is already ahead of Trump. It’s near impossible to find something he has said in the campaign which is true or close to being true. Even the ‘great new deal’ that he “negotiated” was only him accepting the deal the EU wanted from the start and that May (and he) said was entirely unacceptable, he did get workers and environmental protections removed, nothing else.

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

Just out of interest , so we can’t misremember in the future that basically every word is entirely untrue, like we did with the referendum. Can anyone find something Boris said in the campaign that was either true or close to being true?

They all put an electoral spin on things...like it or not it's how politics works.  

.ie the NHS is for sale ,,...it will soon cost you £10,000 for cancer treatment.

 ie almost everthing Ashworth said in the campaign ........he himself said wasn't true !!

Also I’m clearly not talking about normal levels of ‘electoral spin’ (that shouldn’t even be a thing). I’m saying everything from Johnson, all of it, is palpably untrue.

Annoyingly Politifact don't seem to do neat summaries like they do for the US people; is there a summary anywhere for Johnson's 'table of truth'?

This is Politifact's one for Donald Trump (for example).

True	34 (5%)
Mostly True	77 (10%)
Half True	102 (14%)
Mostly False	156 (21%)
False	261 (35%)
Pants on Fire	109 (15%)

Love the politifact analysis 😊. Thankfully we haven’t needed an equivalent, until Boris. I don’t think anyone could reasonably have expected the campaign to be quite this dishonest.

[nirvana]

In terms of sustained repeated lies, Boris is already ahead of Trump. It’s near impossible to find something he has said in the campaign which is true or close to being true. Even the ‘great new deal’ that he “negotiated” was only him accepting the deal the EU wanted from the start and that May (and he) said was entirely unacceptable, he did get workers and environmental protections removed, nothing else.

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

Just out of interest , so we can’t misremember in the future that basically every word is entirely untrue, like we did with the referendum. Can anyone find something Boris said in the campaign that was either true or close to being true?

They all put an electoral spin on things...like it or not it's how politics works.  

.ie the NHS is for sale ,,...it will soon cost you £10,000 for cancer treatment.

 ie almost everthing Ashworth said in the campaign ........he himself said wasn't true !!

The NHS will need to be partly for sale of course, the anti-Corbyn NS does a decent job of outlining why:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2019/11/heres-real-problem-tory-plans-nhs-and-us-uk-trade-deal

This article doesn't make any assertion that the NHS is up for sale, partly or otherwise. In fact it says the opposite

a) It isn't up for sale
b) Trade deals are about access (ie allowing US companies to bid for NHS contracts in exchange for an as yet undefined benefit)
c) It will never happen anyway because the loopy left just say NHS for sale and Trump and the politics of it ensure no trade deal with the US will be done

[kukushkin88]

In terms of sustained repeated lies, Boris is already ahead of Trump. It’s near impossible to find something he has said in the campaign which is true or close to being true. Even the ‘great new deal’ that he “negotiated” was only him accepting the deal the EU wanted from the start and that May (and he) said was entirely unacceptable, he did get workers and environmental protections removed, nothing else.

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

Just out of interest , so we can’t misremember in the future that basically every word is entirely untrue, like we did with the referendum. Can anyone find something Boris said in the campaign that was either true or close to being true?

They all put an electoral spin on things...like it or not it's how politics works.  

.ie the NHS is for sale ,,...it will soon cost you £10,000 for cancer treatment.

 ie almost everthing Ashworth said in the campaign ........he himself said wasn't true !!

The NHS will need to be partly for sale of course, the anti-Corbyn NS does a decent job of outlining why:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2019/11/heres-real-problem-tory-plans-nhs-and-us-uk-trade-deal

This article doesn't make any assertion that the NHS is up for sale, partly or otherwise. In fact it says the opposite

a) It isn't up for sale
b) Trade deals are about access (ie allowing US companies to bid for NHS contracts in exchange for an as yet undefined benefit)
c) It will never happen anyway because the loopy left just say NHS for sale and Trump and the politics of it ensure no trade deal with the US will be done

I think C needs a bit of explanation? There will absolutely need to be a bigger trade deal with the US, the Americans won’t care about political sensitivity at all and neither will Boris if we’re nowhere near an election.

It says everything we know about trade deals to this point says, greater access to the NHS will need to be part of the trade deal. It’s hardly a massive departure to consider greater access for big pharmaceuticals means it’s on the table.

[ripple11]

In terms of sustained repeated lies, Boris is already ahead of Trump. It’s near impossible to find something he has said in the campaign which is true or close to being true. Even the ‘great new deal’ that he “negotiated” was only him accepting the deal the EU wanted from the start and that May (and he) said was entirely unacceptable, he did get workers and environmental protections removed, nothing else.

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

Just out of interest , so we can’t misremember in the future that basically every word is entirely untrue, like we did with the referendum. Can anyone find something Boris said in the campaign that was either true or close to being true?

They all put an electoral spin on things...like it or not it's how politics works.  

.ie the NHS is for sale ,,...it will soon cost you £10,000 for cancer treatment.

 ie almost everthing Ashworth said in the campaign ........he himself said wasn't true !!

I can’t find evidence of the £10,000 for cancer treatment claim. Do you have a link?

I saw it mentioned in interviews by Jo Coburn and Andrew Neil to Labour spokesman, saying why are you using these scare tactics.

Apparently Corbyn sent an email and/or facebook fundraising ad, saying....."imagine paying for childbirth, to see a GP or a five figure sum for cancer treatment "

You can see the image/ad on twitter. I cant seem to see it on msm. I presume labour pulled it quite quickly.

[kukushkin88]

In terms of sustained repeated lies, Boris is already ahead of Trump. It’s near impossible to find something he has said in the campaign which is true or close to being true. Even the ‘great new deal’ that he “negotiated” was only him accepting the deal the EU wanted from the start and that May (and he) said was entirely unacceptable, he did get workers and environmental protections removed, nothing else.

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

Just out of interest , so we can’t misremember in the future that basically every word is entirely untrue, like we did with the referendum. Can anyone find something Boris said in the campaign that was either true or close to being true?

They all put an electoral spin on things...like it or not it's how politics works.  

.ie the NHS is for sale ,,...it will soon cost you £10,000 for cancer treatment.

 ie almost everthing Ashworth said in the campaign ........he himself said wasn't true !!

I can’t find evidence of the £10,000 for cancer treatment claim. Do you have a link?

I saw it mentioned in interviews by Jo Coburn and Andrew Neil to Labour spokesman, saying why are you using these scare tactics.

Apparently Corbyn sent an email and/or facebook fundraising ad, saying....."imagine paying for childbirth, to see a GP or a five figure sum for cancer treatment "

You can see the image/ad on twitter. I cant seem to see it on msm. I presume labour pulled it quite quickly.

OK cool, thanks for looking. As sustained campaigns of profound dishonesty go, it seems quite flimsy compared to 40 new hospitals, 50,000 new/more nurses, no Irish Sea border and £1.2 trillion, to name just a few.

[Marty719]

General election in NI turned massively tactical.  In Belfast North, only 3 names on the ballot as SDLP pulled out to give Sinn Fein a better chance, and UUP pulled out to boost the DUP.  Nigel Dodds the DUP candidate, who has had the seat since 2001, but John Finucane (son of Pat Finucane) should push him very close.  It's been a strange campaign, where after years of voter education driving people away from tribal Green/Orange voting, it's gone full circle.  Should be an interesting night....

[aaron1867]

Look at these queues at Polling stations. Full of young people.

Going to be so close.

[Doobs]

Look at these queues at Polling stations. Full of young people.

Going to be so close.

It really was a bunch of old farts when I went down.   Good job the yoof made it out elsewhere. 

[arbboy]

Look at these queues at Polling stations. Full of young people.

Going to be so close.

How much have you had on labour at 25/1 and 40/1 then if its going to be so close?   You talk like a judge but bet like a pussy. 

[aaron1867]

Look at these queues at Polling stations. Full of young people.

Going to be so close.

It really was a bunch of old farts when I went down.   Good job the yoof made it out elsewhere. 

I’m talking generally about the polling stations that are being reported as huge queues.

[arbboy]

Look at these queues at Polling stations. Full of young people.

Going to be so close.

It really was a bunch of old farts when I went down.   Good job the yoof made it out elsewhere. 

I’m talking generally about the polling stations that are being reported as huge queues.

Daily Mail front page done a great job of getting the middle England tory vote out.   Looks like a landslide to me.   All the kids will be stuck indoors snowflaking and moaning about the rain.

[ripple11]

Just voted with my two 10 yr olds.

They said "how boring"....especially when they said was no Lord Buckethead on the paper.

[Doobs]

Look at these queues at Polling stations. Full of young people.

Going to be so close.

It really was a bunch of old farts when I went down.   Good job the yoof made it out elsewhere. 

I’m talking generally about the polling stations that are being reported as huge queues.

Daily Mail front page done a great job of getting the middle England tory vote out.   Looks like a landslide to me.   All the kids will be stuck indoors snowflaking and moaning about the rain.

I went back as I cocked up earlier; I can confrom still only old people in the heavy rain and mud at my polling station.

Youngsters and lefties:  If you have applied for a postal vote, you need to take the postal vote envelope and fill in the form and ballot paper and take it with you.

Old people, tories and nazis: If you have applied for a postal vote, just show up and don't bother taking anythging with you, it will be fine. 

[aaron1867]

If you’re watching the coverage, which channel you watching it on?

[nirvana]

Gonna stick with my prediction on a Tory majority but also want to get in an early excuse for failure to get this right - The Tories have run another absolutely shocking campaign, not discernibly any kind of step up from May's campaign. Tired and lacking in any good ideas to complement the glory of Brexit.

n.b my wife works at a church / community centre which is used as a polling station. Apparently, more people voted there by 8am than in the entire day last time. I guess there could be a number of reasons for that not neccessarily linked to overall turnout but it's the only thing I know about a polling station so i wanted to share