The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[The Camel]

There must be a genetic factor too.

If you have two thick parents, you are much more likely to be thick yourself surely?

I wouldn't say that necessarily down to genetics though.  it comes back to circumstances.  It depends on how you weight intelligence as well.  

Also much depends on why the parents were "thick".

I'd say that f you have two loving parents who devote their time to you as a child and give you the best possible enviroment to learn in then there is a chance you can become much smarter than your genetics.  

If on the otherhand you have 2 parents who don't care and show no love etc then chances are you will struggle not just with intellect but with all manner of emotions as you get older.  

My definition of thick is someone who votes in a referendum for something which is clearly against his and his families best interest.

That was probably a cry for help at the end of the day.  Anger and frustration that the system works against them.  The EU is just a scapegoat at the end of day?

Yes, almost certainly.

The electoral system is so palpably unfair in this country that for the vast majority of people their vote is worthless.

For once we had a completely fair vote, and people chose it to make their cry for help.

It happens they chose completely the wrong moment, but there might never be another chance.

[Sheriff Fatman]

421 of 574 westminster constituencies probably voted to leave

thought that was remarkable

https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/the-eu-referendum-how-did-westminster-constituencies-vote-283c85cd20e1#.vmx2aqllt

A similar take on the same theme.  It highlights really well the issue that Labour face in particular with regard to their EU stance going forward.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisapplegate/why-a-pro-eu-party-could-be-screwed-in-the-next-election?utm_term=.xr1elgvp5#.mmw3BKvqm

[The Camel]

Why people didn't use the PR referendum as their moment to make their cry for help I don't know.

If that motion had been carried, we really would have stuck it to the establishment and might well have seen some real change.

[DungBeetle]

Why people didn't use the PR referendum as their moment to make their cry for help I don't know.

If that motion had been carried, we really would have stuck it to the establishment and might well have seen some real change.

Yeah it was annoying that it became watered down AVP which led to an insipid low exposure campaign and low turnout.  Shame Lib Dems didn't dig their heels in.  The chance is now gone unfortunately.

[JohnCharver]

There must be a genetic factor too.

If you have two thick parents, you are much more likely to be thick yourself surely?

I wouldn't say that necessarily down to genetics though.  it comes back to circumstances.  It depends on how you weight intelligence as well.  

Also much depends on why the parents were "thick".

I'd say that f you have two loving parents who devote their time to you as a child and give you the best possible enviroment to learn in then there is a chance you can become much smarter than your genetics.  

If on the otherhand you have 2 parents who don't care and show no love etc then chances are you will struggle not just with intellect but with all manner of emotions as you get older.  

My definition of thick is someone who votes in a referendum for something which is clearly against his and his families best interest.

I always find the stupidest in society are those who cant understand why other people do what they do, and assume stuff about them based on ignorance.

[The Camel]

Why people didn't use the PR referendum as their moment to make their cry for help I don't know.

If that motion had been carried, we really would have stuck it to the establishment and might well have seen some real change.

Yeah it was annoying that it became watered down AVP which led to an insipid low exposure campaign and low turnout.  Shame Lib Dems didn't dig their heels in.  The chance is now gone unfortunately.

I'm pushing 50 now and I have never lived in anything other than a safe constituency for one side or the other.

My vote has never mattered.

Ridiculous that each general election (before 2015) is effectively won and lost in about 40 seats, comprising of less than 10% of the electorate.

How exactly is that democracy?

If there's one thing to be thankful for, the rise of the SNP, PC, UKIP and the Greens has meant hung parliaments are far more likely in the future, which will result in the opinions of more people are heard in government.

[DungBeetle]

Why people didn't use the PR referendum as their moment to make their cry for help I don't know.

If that motion had been carried, we really would have stuck it to the establishment and might well have seen some real change.

Yeah it was annoying that it became watered down AVP which led to an insipid low exposure campaign and low turnout.  Shame Lib Dems didn't dig their heels in.  The chance is now gone unfortunately.

I'm pushing 50 now and I have never lived in anything other than a safe constituency for one side or the other.

My vote has never mattered.

Ridiculous that each general election (before 2015) is effectively won and lost in about 40 seats, comprising of less than 10% of the electorate.

How exactly is that democracy?

If there's one thing to be thankful for, the rise of the SNP, PC, UKIP and the Greens has meant hung parliaments are far more likely in the future, which will result in the opinions of more people are heard in government.

Totally agree

[david3103]

Would I be right in thinking that all those poor thick voters used to be the ones that were expected to vote Labour?
Hard to accept their vote in a GE and reject it now.

[JohnCharver]

Find it increasingly ridiculous that leave voters are dismissed as thick yet we havent had a GE in years where the person who simply looked most like a prime minster didnt win.

[The Camel]

Find it increasingly ridiculous that leave voters are dismissed as thick yet we havent had a GE in years where the person who simply looked most like a prime minster didnt win.

That's really funny.

You have just contradicted your first statement with your second.

So people don't vote for the policies which they agree with. They vote for the man who can eat a bacon sandwich without looking silly.

You made my point for me. Thanks.

[rfgqqabc]

Does Murdoch lose these things?

[Jon MW]

...
Ridiculous that each general election (before 2015) is effectively won and lost in about 40 seats, comprising of less than 10% of the electorate.

How exactly is that democracy?
...

If we had PR it would be entirely possible - and probably likely - that a party could get less than 10% of the votes and their extra MP's would be what's needed to provide a winning coalition.

So a party can get less than 10% of the vote and end up as part of the government - how exactly is that democracy?

[The Camel]

Does Murdoch lose these things?

No.

Makes the whole "taking back control from unelected people" and "regaining our sovreignty" arguments about leaving the EU so spurious. As Murdoch has more power than anyone in the EU ever had. And I don't remember him ever facing an electorate.

What I don't understand is why he is so passionate about leaving.

Surely with so many business interests dotted around the globe, free markets are to his benefit, aren't they?

[JohnCharver]

Find it increasingly ridiculous that leave voters are dismissed as thick yet we havent had a GE in years where the person who simply looked most like a prime minster didnt win.

That's really funny.

You have just contradicted your first statement with your second.

So people don't vote for the policies which they agree with. They vote for the man who can eat a bacon sandwich without looking silly.

You made my point for me. Thanks.

My point was all elections usually result for the wrong reason, the one time people show any passion they are dismissed as thick. The electorate as a whole are thick/ignorant to the reality, because experts only say what they do for self serving reasons.

You dont really have any points camel, you believe what you have been spoonfed, and because youve been told it, you believe anyone who doesnt believe what we were told is stupid or thick.

[The Camel]

...
Ridiculous that each general election (before 2015) is effectively won and lost in about 40 seats, comprising of less than 10% of the electorate.

How exactly is that democracy?
...

If we had PR it would be entirely possible - and probably likely - that a party could get less than 10% of the votes and their extra MP's would be what's needed to provide a winning coalition.

So a party can get less than 10% of the vote and end up as part of the government - how exactly is that democracy?

Well that is the easy ant PR argument. And it is valid.

But what I'm assuming is if one party has say, 41% of the seats and teams up with another with 10% of the seats to form a government, the biggest party will enact roughly 80% of its manifesto and the little party gets 20%.

Cameron assumed he'd be in coalition again, that's why he put the EU referendum in their manifesto. It would have been the first thing ditched if they joined up with Clegg and his merry men again.

Unfortunately the Tories won an outright majority because Ed Miliband can't eat a bacon sandwich. #inconvenient