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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180133 times)
RickBFA
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« Reply #9990 on: June 12, 2017, 02:42:44 PM »

I bet the Tories start nicking some of Labour's policies now.

Axing tuition fees is the obvious one. But putting utilities back into public ownership (obv won't say they are nationalising them) is another possibility.

Honestly can't see Tories doing those things.

Axing tuition fees is very expensive.

Utilities back into public ownership goes against basic Tory tendencies.

They would be better putting funds into sorting out social care - we need that sorting no matter which party you support.

They desperately need to work on improving presentation and making their campaign a positive one.

Anyone in a sales environment knows you concentrate on your own strengths not constantly slagging the opposite.



But they didn't have anything positive to offer, so how could they highlight it?

Cutting tax for the rich and big corporations isn't going to win votes from a couple who are trying to feed their 3 kids from food banks.

For the Tories to have any glimmer of hope at the next election they need to roll back austerity PDQ. There's a new, politically connected group of voters who are sick of being forgotten and downtrodden.

The Tories opened the box with the Brexit vote. They can't shut it now when it's politically inconvenient.

The Tories do have a positive story on the economy (which you wont believe) and they should have been screaming it from the rooftops.

The positives (factually provable) are things like :

Since 2010/11 economic stability seeing relatively high levels of economic growth when compared to mature EU countries like Germany and France.

Seeing significant job creation and lowest unemployment rates for what, 15-20 years.

Making it attractive for business to be based here, corporation tax rates etc - that will be critical over next 5 years with Brexit approaching. Ultimately protecting UK jobs.

Increasing National Minimum Wage above inflation.



Basically, the ability to run the economy - something which is Labour's weakness - or perceived weakness.

We heard very little about this in the Tory campaign.

You will disagree, counter the points I've raised but that doesn't matter. In an election campaign the key is to play to your strengths (or perceived strengths) especially where in the same area's of policy, the opposition is seen to be very, very weak. This strategy would have won the Tories power with a comfortable majority IMO.



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EvilPie
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« Reply #9991 on: June 12, 2017, 03:09:34 PM »

My biggest issue with the labour sentiment of "taxing the rich" is that I don't believe they know who "the rich" are. They seem to think the main way to do this is through a corporation tax increase, these rich guys living in big houses abusing their poor workforce. The public image of this is completely warped by companies like google and vodafone.

I have a big issue with this mentality, because what happens in reality is that the majority of the businesses in the UK are SME businesses and the people running them are not "Rich" people, they are taking big (even bigger in this current economic climate) financial risks to go it alone running their own business, and despite being big net contributors to the tax system they receive nothing in tax benefits and as a % of earnings end up paying more than people who work for them. I this is as unfair as the like of google etc only pay 1%. The Labour plans for corporation tax increase hit these guys harder than anyone else.

Should be encouraging enterprise and growth in this area, not dissuading people from starting businesses or just making them cheat the tax system in order to make it viable.

If people want things to be fair, then they need to be fair to everyone equally. The Tories obviously aren't the fair option, and I voted labour first time in my life this time gone, but "being fair" is also letting ALL THE people who working hard for their money keep the majority of it, and not just protecting the poorest people from inequality but all people who might be victim to unfair circumstances, it's there taxes too.

The thing that annoys me about 'taxing the rich' is that they don't take in to account how hard you work to get that money.

I have a couple of guys who work for me who scrape in to the 40% tax bracket so get absolutely stiffed on their tax. They aren't rich, they have to average over 50 hours a week to get that extra bit that pushes them in to that higher bracket. Why should they be taxed more for working harder? It absolutely fucking stinks to be honest. They even lose their little bit of bonus that they get from their wife not earning anything as they're in that higher earnings bracket.

One guy just squeezed in to the 40% bracket by grafting his bollocks off and working extra hours. He did that to provide for his young family including his wife who looks after the kids and doesn't earn. He claims an extra bit of tax relief that you can carry over from your partner if they aren't working but when you hit 40% you get nothing. I worked out that because of being taxed at 40% and losing 100% of that allowance that he'd actually done about two weeks worth of work for literally nothing, not one penny!!

The tax systems stinks of shit but because most don't really understand it they just crack on and accept it not realising that they could've had 80 hours extra spent with their family and still come out with the same amount of money.

When they tax corporations they're hitting people who have accountants and are a bit more savvy so it's going to really be in the limelight. For me the difference between taking a salary and taking dividends is about 10% If they increase corporation tax all that happens is that at some point the swing towards paying income tax + NI will make that option more favourable than dividends. Corporation tax will actually go down but income tax goes up.

I would imagine the easiest way of making sure the Government get their cut is to reduce corporation tax to zero but tax every single bit of income including dividends at the marginal rate. Google can then make as many billions as they want but as soon as someone takes anything from it as earnings they cop for the tax.

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PokerBroker
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« Reply #9992 on: June 12, 2017, 03:22:30 PM »

My biggest issue with the labour sentiment of "taxing the rich" is that I don't believe they know who "the rich" are. They seem to think the main way to do this is through a corporation tax increase, these rich guys living in big houses abusing their poor workforce. The public image of this is completely warped by companies like google and vodafone.

I have a big issue with this mentality, because what happens in reality is that the majority of the businesses in the UK are SME businesses and the people running them are not "Rich" people, they are taking big (even bigger in this current economic climate) financial risks to go it alone running their own business, and despite being big net contributors to the tax system they receive nothing in tax benefits and as a % of earnings end up paying more than people who work for them. I this is as unfair as the like of google etc only pay 1%. The Labour plans for corporation tax increase hit these guys harder than anyone else.

Should be encouraging enterprise and growth in this area, not dissuading people from starting businesses or just making them cheat the tax system in order to make it viable.

If people want things to be fair, then they need to be fair to everyone equally. The Tories obviously aren't the fair option, and I voted labour first time in my life this time gone, but "being fair" is also letting ALL THE people who working hard for their money keep the majority of it, and not just protecting the poorest people from inequality but all people who might be victim to unfair circumstances, it's there taxes too.

The thing that annoys me about 'taxing the rich' is that they don't take in to account how hard you work to get that money.

I have a couple of guys who work for me who scrape in to the 40% tax bracket so get absolutely stiffed on their tax. They aren't rich, they have to average over 50 hours a week to get that extra bit that pushes them in to that higher bracket. Why should they be taxed more for working harder? It absolutely fucking stinks to be honest. They even lose their little bit of bonus that they get from their wife not earning anything as they're in that higher earnings bracket.

One guy just squeezed in to the 40% bracket by grafting his bollocks off and working extra hours. He did that to provide for his young family including his wife who looks after the kids and doesn't earn. He claims an extra bit of tax relief that you can carry over from your partner if they aren't working but when you hit 40% you get nothing. I worked out that because of being taxed at 40% and losing 100% of that allowance that he'd actually done about two weeks worth of work for literally nothing, not one penny!!

The tax systems stinks of shit but because most don't really understand it they just crack on and accept it not realising that they could've had 80 hours extra spent with their family and still come out with the same amount of money.

When they tax corporations they're hitting people who have accountants and are a bit more savvy so it's going to really be in the limelight. For me the difference between taking a salary and taking dividends is about 10% If they increase corporation tax all that happens is that at some point the swing towards paying income tax + NI will make that option more favourable than dividends. Corporation tax will actually go down but income tax goes up.

I would imagine the easiest way of making sure the Government get their cut is to reduce corporation tax to zero but tax every single bit of income including dividends at the marginal rate. Google can then make as many billions as they want but as soon as someone takes anything from it as earnings they cop for the tax.



I agree with you Matt, to an extent.  There are some folk out working and it costs them extra.  There should be an incentive to these folk. 

There are people milking the system because it pays to do so. 
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rfgqqabc
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« Reply #9993 on: June 12, 2017, 05:50:25 PM »

My biggest issue with the labour sentiment of "taxing the rich" is that I don't believe they know who "the rich" are. They seem to think the main way to do this is through a corporation tax increase, these rich guys living in big houses abusing their poor workforce. The public image of this is completely warped by companies like google and vodafone.

I have a big issue with this mentality, because what happens in reality is that the majority of the businesses in the UK are SME businesses and the people running them are not "Rich" people, they are taking big (even bigger in this current economic climate) financial risks to go it alone running their own business, and despite being big net contributors to the tax system they receive nothing in tax benefits and as a % of earnings end up paying more than people who work for them. I this is as unfair as the like of google etc only pay 1%. The Labour plans for corporation tax increase hit these guys harder than anyone else.

Should be encouraging enterprise and growth in this area, not dissuading people from starting businesses or just making them cheat the tax system in order to make it viable.

If people want things to be fair, then they need to be fair to everyone equally. The Tories obviously aren't the fair option, and I voted labour first time in my life this time gone, but "being fair" is also letting ALL THE people who working hard for their money keep the majority of it, and not just protecting the poorest people from inequality but all people who might be victim to unfair circumstances, it's there taxes too.

The thing that annoys me about 'taxing the rich' is that they don't take in to account how hard you work to get that money.

I have a couple of guys who work for me who scrape in to the 40% tax bracket so get absolutely stiffed on their tax. They aren't rich, they have to average over 50 hours a week to get that extra bit that pushes them in to that higher bracket. Why should they be taxed more for working harder? It absolutely fucking stinks to be honest. They even lose their little bit of bonus that they get from their wife not earning anything as they're in that higher earnings bracket.

One guy just squeezed in to the 40% bracket by grafting his bollocks off and working extra hours. He did that to provide for his young family including his wife who looks after the kids and doesn't earn. He claims an extra bit of tax relief that you can carry over from your partner if they aren't working but when you hit 40% you get nothing. I worked out that because of being taxed at 40% and losing 100% of that allowance that he'd actually done about two weeks worth of work for literally nothing, not one penny!!

The tax systems stinks of shit but because most don't really understand it they just crack on and accept it not realising that they could've had 80 hours extra spent with their family and still come out with the same amount of money.

When they tax corporations they're hitting people who have accountants and are a bit more savvy so it's going to really be in the limelight. For me the difference between taking a salary and taking dividends is about 10% If they increase corporation tax all that happens is that at some point the swing towards paying income tax + NI will make that option more favourable than dividends. Corporation tax will actually go down but income tax goes up.

I would imagine the easiest way of making sure the Government get their cut is to reduce corporation tax to zero but tax every single bit of income including dividends at the marginal rate. Google can then make as many billions as they want but as soon as someone takes anything from it as earnings they cop for the tax.



I don't think its people  like your friend that the population want taxed heavily. I think 0.1% would be a more accurate figure. Like the trust laws that allow the Grosvenor family to dodge billions in tax.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/aug/11/inheritance-tax-why-the-new-duke-of-westminster-will-not-pay-billions


You know we pay the big four accountancy firms to help us write our tax laws. Which inevitably leads to them farming both sides. Who better to help dodge the tax then the people who helped consult to make the tax laws themselves. Its also why I think our revolving door of finance and politics is terrible for the country.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/five-of-worlds-biggest-investment-banks-pay-no-uk-corporation-tax-a6783716.html

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-banks-taxation-exclusive-idUKKBN1460NY


This is why putting up corporation tax isn't a viable solution on its own. 
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« Reply #9994 on: June 12, 2017, 06:22:59 PM »

My biggest issue with the labour sentiment of "taxing the rich" is that I don't believe they know who "the rich" are. They seem to think the main way to do this is through a corporation tax increase, these rich guys living in big houses abusing their poor workforce. The public image of this is completely warped by companies like google and vodafone.

I have a big issue with this mentality, because what happens in reality is that the majority of the businesses in the UK are SME businesses and the people running them are not "Rich" people, they are taking big (even bigger in this current economic climate) financial risks to go it alone running their own business, and despite being big net contributors to the tax system they receive nothing in tax benefits and as a % of earnings end up paying more than people who work for them. I this is as unfair as the like of google etc only pay 1%. The Labour plans for corporation tax increase hit these guys harder than anyone else.

Should be encouraging enterprise and growth in this area, not dissuading people from starting businesses or just making them cheat the tax system in order to make it viable.

If people want things to be fair, then they need to be fair to everyone equally. The Tories obviously aren't the fair option, and I voted labour first time in my life this time gone, but "being fair" is also letting ALL THE people who working hard for their money keep the majority of it, and not just protecting the poorest people from inequality but all people who might be victim to unfair circumstances, it's there taxes too.

The thing that annoys me about 'taxing the rich' is that they don't take in to account how hard you work to get that money.

I have a couple of guys who work for me who scrape in to the 40% tax bracket so get absolutely stiffed on their tax. They aren't rich, they have to average over 50 hours a week to get that extra bit that pushes them in to that higher bracket. Why should they be taxed more for working harder? It absolutely fucking stinks to be honest. They even lose their little bit of bonus that they get from their wife not earning anything as they're in that higher earnings bracket.

One guy just squeezed in to the 40% bracket by grafting his bollocks off and working extra hours. He did that to provide for his young family including his wife who looks after the kids and doesn't earn. He claims an extra bit of tax relief that you can carry over from your partner if they aren't working but when you hit 40% you get nothing. I worked out that because of being taxed at 40% and losing 100% of that allowance that he'd actually done about two weeks worth of work for literally nothing, not one penny!!

The tax systems stinks of shit but because most don't really understand it they just crack on and accept it not realising that they could've had 80 hours extra spent with their family and still come out with the same amount of money.

When they tax corporations they're hitting people who have accountants and are a bit more savvy so it's going to really be in the limelight. For me the difference between taking a salary and taking dividends is about 10% If they increase corporation tax all that happens is that at some point the swing towards paying income tax + NI will make that option more favourable than dividends. Corporation tax will actually go down but income tax goes up.

I would imagine the easiest way of making sure the Government get their cut is to reduce corporation tax to zero but tax every single bit of income including dividends at the marginal rate. Google can then make as many billions as they want but as soon as someone takes anything from it as earnings they cop for the tax.



I don't think its people  like your friend that the population want taxed heavily. I think 0.1% would be a more accurate figure. Like the trust laws that allow the Grosvenor family to dodge billions in tax.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/aug/11/inheritance-tax-why-the-new-duke-of-westminster-will-not-pay-billions


You know we pay the big four accountancy firms to help us write our tax laws. Which inevitably leads to them farming both sides. Who better to help dodge the tax then the people who helped consult to make the tax laws themselves. Its also why I think our revolving door of finance and politics is terrible for the country.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/five-of-worlds-biggest-investment-banks-pay-no-uk-corporation-tax-a6783716.html

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-banks-taxation-exclusive-idUKKBN1460NY


This is why putting up corporation tax isn't a viable solution on its own. 

Agree with what you say.  Unfortunately Labour regard you as rich if you have the temerity to earn 100k odd on PAYE and will then swing a bat at you.
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SuuPRlim
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« Reply #9995 on: June 12, 2017, 06:50:58 PM »

Corporation tax from 19 to 26% is going to be a massive killer, I don't actually believe that Labour party genuinely believe it's the way to go but given that the vast majority of the electorate don't work for themselves its kind of a cheap trick to say "those guys running the businesses that you have to slave away to send their kids to private school - they can pay more."

If you have a guy who has 3 staff making £60k p/yr, ~£45k Net. If that guys taking all the risks then he should be able to make considerably more, if after he's paid all the employers NI, CT, then tax on his dividends he's left with barely any more than the guys working for him whats the fucking point, when it's his house that get's repossessed if it all goes tits up.
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« Reply #9996 on: June 12, 2017, 06:53:29 PM »

Plenty of people on here that obviously have an abundance of spare time, based on time spent on the thread, and obviously have very strong views, and think you have all the answers.

Makes sense that at least some of you put your money where your mouth is and offer yourselves up as local politicians!
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« Reply #9997 on: June 12, 2017, 06:56:36 PM »

Plenty of people on here that obviously have an abundance of spare time, based on time spent on the thread, and obviously have very strong views, and think you have all the answers.

Makes sense that at least some of you put your money where your mouth is and offer yourselves up as local politicians!

Doesn't pay well enough adz for me.  Can't take a pay cut and you have to pay tax as well.  Fuck that!

One of the bet365 traders stood as a tory candidate last week but missed out by 5,000 votes in a safe labour seat.  
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 07:02:51 PM by arbboy » Logged
SuuPRlim
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« Reply #9998 on: June 12, 2017, 10:24:23 PM »

Plenty of people on here that obviously have an abundance of spare time, based on time spent on the thread, and obviously have very strong views, and think you have all the answers.

Makes sense that at least some of you put your money where your mouth is and offer yourselves up as local politicians!

I was told that if I voted, I was allowed to complain about politics!!! Why else would anyone british bother voting Tongue
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JohnCharver
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« Reply #9999 on: June 13, 2017, 12:49:25 AM »

Plenty of people on here that obviously have an abundance of spare time, based on time spent on the thread, and obviously have very strong views, and think you have all the answers.

Makes sense that at least some of you put your money where your mouth is and offer yourselves up as local politicians!

Because being a tory is like masturbating, you do it on safe internet sites not in public, and once in a while in a private booth.
 
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aaron1867
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« Reply #10000 on: June 13, 2017, 02:20:08 AM »

My biggest issue with the labour sentiment of "taxing the rich" is that I don't believe they know who "the rich" are. They seem to think the main way to do this is through a corporation tax increase, these rich guys living in big houses abusing their poor workforce. The public image of this is completely warped by companies like google and vodafone.

I have a big issue with this mentality, because what happens in reality is that the majority of the businesses in the UK are SME businesses and the people running them are not "Rich" people, they are taking big (even bigger in this current economic climate) financial risks to go it alone running their own business, and despite being big net contributors to the tax system they receive nothing in tax benefits and as a % of earnings end up paying more than people who work for them. I this is as unfair as the like of google etc only pay 1%. The Labour plans for corporation tax increase hit these guys harder than anyone else.

Should be encouraging enterprise and growth in this area, not dissuading people from starting businesses or just making them cheat the tax system in order to make it viable.

If people want things to be fair, then they need to be fair to everyone equally. The Tories obviously aren't the fair option, and I voted labour first time in my life this time gone, but "being fair" is also letting ALL THE people who working hard for their money keep the majority of it, and not just protecting the poorest people from inequality but all people who might be victim to unfair circumstances, it's there taxes too.

The thing that annoys me about 'taxing the rich' is that they don't take in to account how hard you work to get that money.

I have a couple of guys who work for me who scrape in to the 40% tax bracket so get absolutely stiffed on their tax. They aren't rich, they have to average over 50 hours a week to get that extra bit that pushes them in to that higher bracket. Why should they be taxed more for working harder? It absolutely fucking stinks to be honest. They even lose their little bit of bonus that they get from their wife not earning anything as they're in that higher earnings bracket.

One guy just squeezed in to the 40% bracket by grafting his bollocks off and working extra hours. He did that to provide for his young family including his wife who looks after the kids and doesn't earn. He claims an extra bit of tax relief that you can carry over from your partner if they aren't working but when you hit 40% you get nothing. I worked out that because of being taxed at 40% and losing 100% of that allowance that he'd actually done about two weeks worth of work for literally nothing, not one penny!!

The tax systems stinks of shit but because most don't really understand it they just crack on and accept it not realising that they could've had 80 hours extra spent with their family and still come out with the same amount of money.

When they tax corporations they're hitting people who have accountants and are a bit more savvy so it's going to really be in the limelight. For me the difference between taking a salary and taking dividends is about 10% If they increase corporation tax all that happens is that at some point the swing towards paying income tax + NI will make that option more favourable than dividends. Corporation tax will actually go down but income tax goes up.

I would imagine the easiest way of making sure the Government get their cut is to reduce corporation tax to zero but tax every single bit of income including dividends at the marginal rate. Google can then make as many billions as they want but as soon as someone takes anything from it as earnings they cop for the tax.



I agree with some points, we can't keep on hitting the rich, but it is completely clear that the money has to come from somewhere. But are you also comfortable in that one party wants to tax the most stable a little bit more, or a party who wants to take out on the least stable in our country? I think if anything, if you are going to tax the rich, then you need to find the middle ground somewhere.

But I am curious on what you say on the 40% tax and your guy just geting over the line to pay it, if he is genuinely just getting over the line, then surely this is just common sense to make sure he is back under the line? I have made sure that this has happened with myself and I am far better off for it. I am just assuming that your guy is actually earning a bit more than the actual 40% line, for him not to consider how to get back under it.

And just a little thought on the election, I feel personally that the next election needs to be run ASAP. This uncertainty isn't doing anyone any good and I can see the public being competed pissed off if another one is called in a years time, let's just get this out of the way ASAP, and hopefully this year, because we look so unstable at home and also in Europe. But of course the selfishness of the Tory party will probably try and delay this for as long as they can.
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #10001 on: June 13, 2017, 07:31:56 AM »

My biggest issue with the labour sentiment of "taxing the rich" is that I don't believe they know who "the rich" are. They seem to think the main way to do this is through a corporation tax increase, these rich guys living in big houses abusing their poor workforce. The public image of this is completely warped by companies like google and vodafone.

I have a big issue with this mentality, because what happens in reality is that the majority of the businesses in the UK are SME businesses and the people running them are not "Rich" people, they are taking big (even bigger in this current economic climate) financial risks to go it alone running their own business, and despite being big net contributors to the tax system they receive nothing in tax benefits and as a % of earnings end up paying more than people who work for them. I this is as unfair as the like of google etc only pay 1%. The Labour plans for corporation tax increase hit these guys harder than anyone else.

Should be encouraging enterprise and growth in this area, not dissuading people from starting businesses or just making them cheat the tax system in order to make it viable.

If people want things to be fair, then they need to be fair to everyone equally. The Tories obviously aren't the fair option, and I voted labour first time in my life this time gone, but "being fair" is also letting ALL THE people who working hard for their money keep the majority of it, and not just protecting the poorest people from inequality but all people who might be victim to unfair circumstances, it's there taxes too.

The thing that annoys me about 'taxing the rich' is that they don't take in to account how hard you work to get that money.

I have a couple of guys who work for me who scrape in to the 40% tax bracket so get absolutely stiffed on their tax. They aren't rich, they have to average over 50 hours a week to get that extra bit that pushes them in to that higher bracket. Why should they be taxed more for working harder? It absolutely fucking stinks to be honest. They even lose their little bit of bonus that they get from their wife not earning anything as they're in that higher earnings bracket.

One guy just squeezed in to the 40% bracket by grafting his bollocks off and working extra hours. He did that to provide for his young family including his wife who looks after the kids and doesn't earn. He claims an extra bit of tax relief that you can carry over from your partner if they aren't working but when you hit 40% you get nothing. I worked out that because of being taxed at 40% and losing 100% of that allowance that he'd actually done about two weeks worth of work for literally nothing, not one penny!!

The tax systems stinks of shit but because most don't really understand it they just crack on and accept it not realising that they could've had 80 hours extra spent with their family and still come out with the same amount of money.

When they tax corporations they're hitting people who have accountants and are a bit more savvy so it's going to really be in the limelight. For me the difference between taking a salary and taking dividends is about 10% If they increase corporation tax all that happens is that at some point the swing towards paying income tax + NI will make that option more favourable than dividends. Corporation tax will actually go down but income tax goes up.

I would imagine the easiest way of making sure the Government get their cut is to reduce corporation tax to zero but tax every single bit of income including dividends at the marginal rate. Google can then make as many billions as they want but as soon as someone takes anything from it as earnings they cop for the tax.



I agree with some points, we can't keep on hitting the rich, but it is completely clear that the money has to come from somewhere. But are you also comfortable in that one party wants to tax the most stable a little bit more, or a party who wants to take out on the least stable in our country? I think if anything, if you are going to tax the rich, then you need to find the middle ground somewhere.

But I am curious on what you say on the 40% tax and your guy just geting over the line to pay it, if he is genuinely just getting over the line, then surely this is just common sense to make sure he is back under the line? I have made sure that this has happened with myself and I am far better off for it. I am just assuming that your guy is actually earning a bit more than the actual 40% line, for him not to consider how to get back under it.

And just a little thought on the election, I feel personally that the next election needs to be run ASAP. This uncertainty isn't doing anyone any good and I can see the public being competed pissed off if another one is called in a years time, let's just get this out of the way ASAP, and hopefully this year, because we look so unstable at home and also in Europe. But of course the selfishness of the Tory party will probably try and delay this for as long as they can.

He doesn't need to get under the line because he only pays 40% on what is above the line???  Edit: or are we talking about missing out on benefits?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 07:33:41 AM by DungBeetle » Logged
SuuPRlim
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« Reply #10002 on: June 13, 2017, 08:20:14 AM »

My biggest issue with the labour sentiment of "taxing the rich" is that I don't believe they know who "the rich" are. They seem to think the main way to do this is through a corporation tax increase, these rich guys living in big houses abusing their poor workforce. The public image of this is completely warped by companies like google and vodafone.

I have a big issue with this mentality, because what happens in reality is that the majority of the businesses in the UK are SME businesses and the people running them are not "Rich" people, they are taking big (even bigger in this current economic climate) financial risks to go it alone running their own business, and despite being big net contributors to the tax system they receive nothing in tax benefits and as a % of earnings end up paying more than people who work for them. I this is as unfair as the like of google etc only pay 1%. The Labour plans for corporation tax increase hit these guys harder than anyone else.

Should be encouraging enterprise and growth in this area, not dissuading people from starting businesses or just making them cheat the tax system in order to make it viable.

If people want things to be fair, then they need to be fair to everyone equally. The Tories obviously aren't the fair option, and I voted labour first time in my life this time gone, but "being fair" is also letting ALL THE people who working hard for their money keep the majority of it, and not just protecting the poorest people from inequality but all people who might be victim to unfair circumstances, it's there taxes too.

The thing that annoys me about 'taxing the rich' is that they don't take in to account how hard you work to get that money.

I have a couple of guys who work for me who scrape in to the 40% tax bracket so get absolutely stiffed on their tax. They aren't rich, they have to average over 50 hours a week to get that extra bit that pushes them in to that higher bracket. Why should they be taxed more for working harder? It absolutely fucking stinks to be honest. They even lose their little bit of bonus that they get from their wife not earning anything as they're in that higher earnings bracket.

One guy just squeezed in to the 40% bracket by grafting his bollocks off and working extra hours. He did that to provide for his young family including his wife who looks after the kids and doesn't earn. He claims an extra bit of tax relief that you can carry over from your partner if they aren't working but when you hit 40% you get nothing. I worked out that because of being taxed at 40% and losing 100% of that allowance that he'd actually done about two weeks worth of work for literally nothing, not one penny!!

The tax systems stinks of shit but because most don't really understand it they just crack on and accept it not realising that they could've had 80 hours extra spent with their family and still come out with the same amount of money.

When they tax corporations they're hitting people who have accountants and are a bit more savvy so it's going to really be in the limelight. For me the difference between taking a salary and taking dividends is about 10% If they increase corporation tax all that happens is that at some point the swing towards paying income tax + NI will make that option more favourable than dividends. Corporation tax will actually go down but income tax goes up.

I would imagine the easiest way of making sure the Government get their cut is to reduce corporation tax to zero but tax every single bit of income including dividends at the marginal rate. Google can then make as many billions as they want but as soon as someone takes anything from it as earnings they cop for the tax.



I agree with some points, we can't keep on hitting the rich, but it is completely clear that the money has to come from somewhere. But are you also comfortable in that one party wants to tax the most stable a little bit more, or a party who wants to take out on the least stable in our country? I think if anything, if you are going to tax the rich, then you need to find the middle ground somewhere.

But I am curious on what you say on the 40% tax and your guy just geting over the line to pay it, if he is genuinely just getting over the line, then surely this is just common sense to make sure he is back under the line? I have made sure that this has happened with myself and I am far better off for it. I am just assuming that your guy is actually earning a bit more than the actual 40% line, for him not to consider how to get back under it.

And just a little thought on the election, I feel personally that the next election needs to be run ASAP. This uncertainty isn't doing anyone any good and I can see the public being competed pissed off if another one is called in a years time, let's just get this out of the way ASAP, and hopefully this year, because we look so unstable at home and also in Europe. But of course the selfishness of the Tory party will probably try and delay this for as long as they can.

Seems sensible, I feel like there is some political reason I don't know why it won't happen, but on the surface I have to agree
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« Reply #10003 on: June 13, 2017, 08:20:46 AM »

10 reasons for the result

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/june2017/2017/06/what-drove-labours-success-tough-line-immigration-and-appeal-middle-class
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« Reply #10004 on: June 13, 2017, 08:24:34 AM »

The tories primary goal is to win elections and be in power, hence it was called when they were 15% ahead, they are now 3% behind, no chance they will call one now. They will just hang on until too many by-elections go the wrong way.

The best the tories can hope for is to stay in power and hope something comes up which means they can win the next one.
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