The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[david3103]

There's an awful lot I dislike about Tony Blair, but there's no denying the New Labour years were a very good time to be bringing up kids on relatively low incomes. Both me and MrsM were working but not earning a great deal, but the tax credits, child support and later the minimum wage were life savers. I'd hate to be at that stage of our lives under this lot.

Those years were good for a lot of us. But the economic prosperity we were experiencing was based on a false premise. Brown suggested that he had 'broken the bust and boom' cycle, and then had to bail out the British Banking Industry. I'm not saying he caused that crisis, but it happened on his watch. We were all spending money that didn't actually exist.

Also, it is pretty widely accepted that the Brown tax credits systems were a disaster in their application. If you got the right amount every week you were one of the lucky ones.

[AlunB]

The problem with politics "Which suggests he does have a guiding conservative principle after all: to conserve his job, if not his country."

There's no incentive to do the best job, just to please most people who don't really understand.

Blair was OOL for pushing for war using knowingly false information to misle those he believed he must 'know best'. His attitude since leaving office has been harrowing to say the least, at least he's very well off and has armed guards on every single one of his many properties and can prance about the world talking about peace and democracy and giving his genius insight about how to achieve that.... Justice for all yo.

We were all spending money that didn't actually exist.

1. Has that ever been proven? That he knew it was false? Genuine question.
2. Doesn't every PM have that? Pretty sure Thatcher did as her place in London was round the corner from where I used to live and were always guards outside.
3. We still are. That's what money is these days

[Woodsey]

The problem with politics "Which suggests he does have a guiding conservative principle after all: to conserve his job, if not his country."

There's no incentive to do the best job, just to please most people who don't really understand.

so much this.


Blair was OOL for pushing for war using knowingly false information to misle those he believed he must 'know best'. His attitude since leaving office has been harrowing to say the least, at least he's very well off and has armed guards on every single one of his many properties and can prance about the world talking about peace and democracy and giving his genius insight about how to achieve that.... Justice for all yo.

What's with this 'yo' chav language, be careful sunshine or you'll be swearing next 

[TightEnd]

How the Tories are trying to make it impossible for Labour to win again

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/05/how-tories-are-trying-make-it-impossible-labour-win-again

[AndrewT]

How the Tories are trying to make it impossible for Labour to win again

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/05/how-tories-are-trying-make-it-impossible-labour-win-again

Allowing expatriates to vote for life

A new Votes for Life Bill will abolish the current 15-year limit on UK expatriates voting in general elections. The Tories have presented the move as merely ending an "unfair" rule but there are political calculations at work. No age group is more likely to vote Conservative than the over-65s, who account for a disproportionate share of expatriates. The Tories finished 24 points ahead among pensioners at the election, 78 per cent of whom turned out. The extension of the franchise to the 3.3m expatriates who have lived outside of the UK for more than 15 years will give them an additional advantage over Labour.

This is certainly news to me - had no idea that I could vote in a UK election whilst living overseas.

Not really sure why I should be able to though.

[MANTIS01]

The best way I can describe Blair's tenure is I'm left with a semi weird feeling he used the country as a vessel. Don't even know what that means other than I think he steered the country in a personal direction and that leaves me feeling rather uncomfortable. It may be true that the people of Britain are dumb and we don't really understand the true complexity of world problems like some of the wizards out there but I'm afraid we ARE the electorate. The essence of democracy is to represent the views of the people so "being good at your job" is to do just that. Doing what you want to do instead because you know better is kinda terrible and disrespectful to democracy, that isn't leadership. In complete contrast Maggie always did what was best for the country and often courted unpopularity to do so, proper leader, we've had a bunch of clowns ever since. I'm pretty sure Alastair Campbell is to blame for everything.

[Geo the Sarge]

Tony Blair rues ‘tragedy’ of Labour under Jeremy Corbyn: http://bit.ly/1R9u0FJ  

sure to go down well...

Blair has an almost evangelical Christian like view of his time in power - he is blinkered by self belief. Totally delusional for me.

His leadership was a disaster for our country, certainly when it comes to foreign policy.

Why? I think he was broadly a successful PM with one horrendous stain on his record as opposed to a PM who got everything wrong. Why do you think he was a disaster? If it's just the Iraq war then fair enough no need to elaborate, just wondering if it was more than that.

My judgement is coloured to a point by my natural tendency to be more right wing than left wing when it comes to politics.

I think Iraq was a monumental mistake that has haunted us ever since and will continue to do so.

It created more problems that it solved, killed thousands of innocent people, cost fortunes which could have been spent more wisely, left the region more unstable than before and helped the cause of the likes of Bin Laden and the groups that have followed enormously. They couldn't have asked for a better recruitment sergeant.

What is troubling is Blair's unwillingness to accept that Iraq was a shambles and has cost us dearly. He really is like one of those religious zealots that believe their own narrative even when the truth and reality is staring them in the face.

This is true.

Although I don't agree with your religious analogy. To the point of finding it borderline offensive. But I do get where you're coming from with it. To some people the religious person seem misguided and stupid. That doesn't mean they are.

Back to the original point. Blair gets a very bad rap, and quite rightly so for the reasons you said above. But he did have some fairly considerable successes during his tenure. Not least Northern Ireland.

What success was this please?

Geo

[MintTrav]

Tony Blair rues ‘tragedy’ of Labour under Jeremy Corbyn: http://bit.ly/1R9u0FJ  

sure to go down well...

Blair has an almost evangelical Christian like view of his time in power - he is blinkered by self belief. Totally delusional for me.

His leadership was a disaster for our country, certainly when it comes to foreign policy.

Why? I think he was broadly a successful PM with one horrendous stain on his record as opposed to a PM who got everything wrong. Why do you think he was a disaster? If it's just the Iraq war then fair enough no need to elaborate, just wondering if it was more than that.

My judgement is coloured to a point by my natural tendency to be more right wing than left wing when it comes to politics.

I think Iraq was a monumental mistake that has haunted us ever since and will continue to do so.

It created more problems that it solved, killed thousands of innocent people, cost fortunes which could have been spent more wisely, left the region more unstable than before and helped the cause of the likes of Bin Laden and the groups that have followed enormously. They couldn't have asked for a better recruitment sergeant.

What is troubling is Blair's unwillingness to accept that Iraq was a shambles and has cost us dearly. He really is like one of those religious zealots that believe their own narrative even when the truth and reality is staring them in the face.

This is true.

Although I don't agree with your religious analogy. To the point of finding it borderline offensive. But I do get where you're coming from with it. To some people the religious person seem misguided and stupid. That doesn't mean they are.

Back to the original point. Blair gets a very bad rap, and quite rightly so for the reasons you said above. But he did have some fairly considerable successes during his tenure. Not least Northern Ireland.

What success was this please?

Geo

Low inflation
Highest employment level ever
Record results in education
Massive reduction in poverty levels
Major reduction in crime
Massive schools building & maintenance programme
Hospital waiting times
Northern Ireland
Devolution - Scotland, Wales, London
Large increases in the number of nurses, doctors, teachers, teaching assistants, police
Section 28, civil partnerships
Minimum Wage
Environment/pollution
Child Trust Funds
Third World debt
Won the Olympic bid

There is plenty more, but that'll do.

Best Prime Minister in my lifetime by a distance.

[RickBFA]

Tony Blair rues ‘tragedy’ of Labour under Jeremy Corbyn: http://bit.ly/1R9u0FJ  

sure to go down well...

Blair has an almost evangelical Christian like view of his time in power - he is blinkered by self belief. Totally delusional for me.

His leadership was a disaster for our country, certainly when it comes to foreign policy.

Why? I think he was broadly a successful PM with one horrendous stain on his record as opposed to a PM who got everything wrong. Why do you think he was a disaster? If it's just the Iraq war then fair enough no need to elaborate, just wondering if it was more than that.

My judgement is coloured to a point by my natural tendency to be more right wing than left wing when it comes to politics.

I think Iraq was a monumental mistake that has haunted us ever since and will continue to do so.

It created more problems that it solved, killed thousands of innocent people, cost fortunes which could have been spent more wisely, left the region more unstable than before and helped the cause of the likes of Bin Laden and the groups that have followed enormously. They couldn't have asked for a better recruitment sergeant.

What is troubling is Blair's unwillingness to accept that Iraq was a shambles and has cost us dearly. He really is like one of those religious zealots that believe their own narrative even when the truth and reality is staring them in the face.

This is true.

Although I don't agree with your religious analogy. To the point of finding it borderline offensive. But I do get where you're coming from with it. To some people the religious person seem misguided and stupid. That doesn't mean they are.

Back to the original point. Blair gets a very bad rap, and quite rightly so for the reasons you said above. But he did have some fairly considerable successes during his tenure. Not least Northern Ireland.

What success was this please?

Geo

Low inflation
Highest employment level ever
Record results in education
Massive reduction in poverty levels
Major reduction in crime
Massive schools building & maintenance programme
Hospital waiting times
Northern Ireland
Devolution - Scotland, Wales, London
Large increases in the number of nurses, doctors, teachers, teaching assistants, police
Section 28, civil partnerships
Minimum Wage
Environment/pollution
Child Trust Funds
Third World debt
Won the Olympic bid

There is plenty more, but that'll do.

Best Prime Minister in my lifetime by a distance.

He got lucky with a sustained world wide economic boom time whilst he was PM.

Put him in charge in a different era, with different economic conditions and you would see a different picture.

[arbboy]

Great PM until someone had to pay for it all after he left office. The 'credit card' PM.  Always on the never never.

[George2Loose]

Think Blair would thrive in those conditions actually.

He certainly is more charismatic than Brown/Cameron/Major but I guess that's not too difficult.

Would be genuinely excited about Boris being in office x

[Woodsey]

Great PM until someone had to pay for it all after he left office. The 'credit card' PM.  Always on the never never.

Aye, but I didn't mind Blair that much, Brown was the one that really started to piss money away as labour governments usually do eventually...

[4KSuited]

Certainly agree that Blair had charisma. He was probably the first truly "presidential" type PM this country has had since Churchill. Massively disappointed when he was able to pass the baton to Brown uncontested.

[TightEnd]

the government's airport problem, shoved into the long grass

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35053449

[TightEnd]

interesting stuff

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/12/jeremy-corbyn-ends-his-first-90-days-leader-strong-position