The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[DaveShoelace]

one BBC reporters writes

"It's absolutely f**** bonkers" "he came up with it off the top of his head" one Labour Party source tells me of Corbyn wage cap idea.

(allegedly not discussed in shad cab before he announced it)

John Humphrys pushed him this morning about fat cats salaries...and he couldn't stop himself.

News outlets pick it up and suddenly he answering questions about Wenger/Arsenal pay structures 

This is how you beat Corbyn methinks, just give him enough rope to hang himself. Tory strategy probably should just be to plant journalists in his press conferences and randomly ask him 'Chairman Mao, loveable rogue wasn't he?'

Using my obviously horrific poker body language reading, it really just seems like he doesn't want to be PM.

[AndrewT]

"Lib Dems are going to be DELIGHTED. Now only pro-Remain and pro-FOM party. Major space opened up for them"

Isn't there an argument that a resurgent Lib Dems actually helps Labour as most of the seats the LDs would pick up would be LD-Con marginals.

[Jon MW]

one BBC reporters writes

"It's absolutely f**** bonkers" "he came up with it off the top of his head" one Labour Party source tells me of Corbyn wage cap idea.

(allegedly not discussed in shad cab before he announced it)

John Humphrys pushed him this morning about fat cats salaries...and he couldn't stop himself.

News outlets pick it up and suddenly he answering questions about Wenger/Arsenal pay structures 

This is how you beat Corbyn methinks, just give him enough rope to hang himself. Tory strategy probably should just be to plant journalists in his press conferences and randomly ask him 'Chairman Mao, loveable rogue wasn't he?'

Using my obviously horrific poker body language reading, it really just seems like he doesn't want to be PM.

Corbyn also said he'd be happy to stand on the picket line with Southern Rail strikers - would certainly support the idea he only really wants to run the Labour party rather than the country.

[TightEnd]

"Lib Dems are going to be DELIGHTED. Now only pro-Remain and pro-FOM party. Major space opened up for them"

Isn't there an argument that a resurgent Lib Dems actually helps Labour as most of the seats the LDs would pick up would be LD-Con marginals.

in part yes (rural seats in the south/south west, where pro-leave brexited Con has to be vulnerable), but there are also LD/Lab marginals particularly in metropolitan areas (Bremondsey etc) also very pro-remain

its an interesting discussion, assuming this policy stays and has traction, whether shoring up the labour heartland vote produces a bigger gain than a potential loss of metropolitan vote. estimating that isn't easy yet 

[nirvana]

this is a long read but a must read

in it he says that remain wins without the £350m a week extra to the NHS pledge

How Vote Leave won the Brexit referendum by its key strategist, Dominic Cummings

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/dominic-cummings-brexit-referendum-won/

Very interesting piece I thought, especially as it resonates pretty well with my perspectives I suppose. Even when it doesn't particularly resonate with me it is packed with insight even when somewhat revisionist I think.

I could paste little bits for months from that piece but just a few below that I wanted to copy as they are subjects that have me shouting out loud at my TV quite often.

"Further, many of the same people spent the entire campaign saying ‘Vote Leave has admitted a Leave vote means leaving the Single Market, this is what will happen make no mistake…’ and now say ‘the Single Market was not an issue, Vote Leave never had a policy on it and there is no mandate for leaving it’."

Love this and we've seen it happening from day 1. Some good clips on youtube of Andrew Neill making Clegg look very silly on his 'we didn't vote for a destination' schtick by showing people from all sides of the campaign being clear that voting to leave means leaving the single market, ldo.

"Why is almost all political analysis and discussion so depressing and fruitless? I think much has to do with the delusions of better educated people. It is easier to spread memes in SW1, N1, and among Guardian readers than in Easington Colliery.
Generally the better educated are more prone to irrational political opinions and political hysteria than the worse educated far from power. Why? In the field of political opinion they are more driven by fashion, a gang mentality, and the desire to pose about moral and political questions all of which exacerbate cognitive biases, encourage groupthink, and reduce accuracy.
We all fool ourselves but the more educated are particularly overconfident that they are not fooling themselves. They back their gang then fool themselves that they have reached their views by sensible, intelligent, reasoning."

The more educated are particularly over confident that they are not fooling themselves is such a great take on the general sneerage and contempt factor of the remain campaign and typical remain voter.

"We know that cognitive diversity is vital for political accuracy yet almost all political institutions and the media – including the dominant people at Newsnight, the Economist, the FT, and Parliament – are actually remarkably homogenous, as discussed above, and they herd around very similar ideas about how the world works. Scientists and entrepreneurs in particular are almost totally excluded from political influence.
There is no structure to hold them to account either internally or externally so, like anyone when not forced to be rigorous, they fool themselves. It is normal to write month after month that the IN campaign cannot lose because of XYZ then just as confidently and authoritatively explain why IN lost without any intermediate step of identifying and explaining errors."

Good analysis of the lack of rigour that enables politicians and pundits to generally talk a complete bag most of the time

[The Camel]

made me chuckle anyway

Click to see full-size image.

Honestly thought this was a spoof when I saw it.

Still not 100% convinced it isn't a joke.

[The Camel]

So Corbyn has decided to stick two fingers up to the 65% of his party's voters who wanted to remain.

I've been a lifelong Labour supporter, but will cast my vote elsewhere or abstain while this clown is the leader.

[DaveShoelace]

So Corbyn has decided to stick two fingers up to the 65% of his party's voters who wanted to remain.

I've been a lifelong Labour supporter, but will cast my vote elsewhere or abstain while this clown is the leader.

If he became PM, is his loyalty not to the entire country rather than his party's supporters?

[nirvana]

made me chuckle anyway

Click to see full-size image.

Honestly thought this was a spoof when I saw it.

Still not 100% convinced it isn't a joke.

Breezing by earlier I was certain it was a spoof and that's what Rich was chuckling at but think it might be serious now having read some other Guardian stuff

[nirvana]

So Corbyn has decided to stick two fingers up to the 65% of his party's voters who wanted to remain.

I've been a lifelong Labour supporter, but will cast my vote elsewhere or abstain while this clown is the leader.

I wouldn't fret too much, he won't have any influence whatsoever on brex or no brex, terms of brex etc

Wider point - this issue is so far from a party political one - I'd choose to vote for a pro remain party like the Greens based on non existent climate change ahead of this issue

[The Camel]

So Corbyn has decided to stick two fingers up to the 65% of his party's voters who wanted to remain.

I've been a lifelong Labour supporter, but will cast my vote elsewhere or abstain while this clown is the leader.

If he became PM, is his loyalty not to the entire country rather than his party's supporters?

I think he should be trying to win the argument for a second referendum.

I think it's very clear that remain would win it. The demographic of the elctorate will have changed (young voters replacing old voters who have died) plus at least a couple of pecentage points of buyers remorse on top of that.

The stuff I heard this morning about immigration (later in the day it was talked down somewhat though) made it sound like Corbyn was aiming to park his tanks on UKIPs lawns.

[PokerBroker]

Would you support a maximum wage law in the UK?

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has again suggested he would like to see a maximum salary cap in the UK. Would you support this policy? And what level do you think maximum earnings should be?


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/10/would-you-support-a-maximum-wage-law-in-the-uk?CMP=twt_gu

I would.  I think it's a good ideaa.

[The Camel]

So Corbyn has decided to stick two fingers up to the 65% of his party's voters who wanted to remain.

I've been a lifelong Labour supporter, but will cast my vote elsewhere or abstain while this clown is the leader.

I wouldn't fret too much, he won't have any influence whatsoever on brex or no brex, terms of brex etc

Wider point - this issue is so far from a party political one - I'd choose to vote for a pro remain party like the Greens based on non existent climate change ahead of this issue

Forget ISIS and Brexit, clearly this is the most important crisis facing humanity for the next 25 years and the policies of the UK and the USA seem to be non existent.

I heard a frightening stat the oither day. 16 of the 17 hottest years in history have been in 2000 to 2016.

They need to get their fingers out immediately, or there will be nothing left to argue about.

[Doobs]

Would you support a maximum wage law in the UK?

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has again suggested he would like to see a maximum salary cap in the UK. Would you support this policy? And what level do you think maximum earnings should be?


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/10/would-you-support-a-maximum-wage-law-in-the-uk?CMP=twt_gu

I would.  I think it's a good ideaa.

Surely taxing a big wage properly is a way better idea?  A huge proportion of our tax revenues cone from the rich.  Limitting wages, limits your tax take.

Love the way Corbyn is so out of touch he doesn't see that he is filthy rich himself.

[arbboy]

gg the championship and EPL as we know it then. Never have another British champions league winner either.