The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[MintTrav]

In that case, I apologise.

I saw the post, cos I always refresh after to check, but it has obviously somehow gone awol into the atmosphere. I did it on my phone on a train wifi, so something must have gone wrong technologically (is that a word?).

[tikay]

In that case, I apologise.

I saw the post, cos I always refresh after to check, but it has obviously somehow gone awol into the atmosphere. I did it on my phone on a train wifi, so something must have gone wrong technologically (is that a word?).

No worries.

When using a phone to post, the page is inclined to be "jumpy" and it is very easy to accidentally press the delete button. I would imagine that is the likely scenario.

[PokerBroker]

In what way is the economy rigged?  I just watched a video from one of Corbyn's bright young things supposedly about the rigged economy and am genuinely none the wiser.

To me this suggests that there is lots of illegal goings on, and such suggestions were only made by those in tin foil hats.  So person A only pays less tax than person B, because he is related to Lord Snooty kind of thing.

I understand how the rich do better in life as a whole, but that is because they start with more money.
I understand that those who go to public schools do better, but that is down to a better education and better connected friends/parents etc.
I understand how powerful people like to speak to other powerful people.  Human nature means that most people choose to interact with people that are going to improve their lot.
I understand why some fella with a public school/Oxbridge background may find it easier to get inside some companies than I do.
I even think things like crime, bribery and nepotism are always going to happen whether or not you rig the economy or not.

There are lots of these kind of things, but they are all explainable without any rigging going on.
For instance, I don't like the fact private schools get charitable status, but once they have it, then I don't think treating them like you would any other charity is rigging the economy.  You are on a bit of a slippery slope where you start picking which charities get which charitable status on political grounds.

So where is the rigging going on, and what does it involve?     

Nobody want to answer this?

I have done a bit more reading, and it appears to come from Bernie Saunders campaign for the Presidency. 

It seems that if the right follow their policies they are rigging the economy. 

For example if you have a policy of zero inheritance tax for all and that results in lots of sons of daughters becoming more rich than they "should" you are not following your policies, you are rigging the economy.  I am not sure if it works the other way, so if you have affirmative action in favour of some minority or some underrepresented class, then you aren't rigging the economy.  And the reason they aren't rigging the economy seems purely to be down to who benefits or who proposes the policy.  Interesting use of the English language there.

I was trying to think of policies that "rig" the economy in favour of the wealthier people, and obviously reducing inheritance tax, corporation tax and higher rate tax would be good examples, as would introducing more grammar schools.  But if you wanted to get rid of the "rigged economy", would you really offer free university education for students?    University education benefits the rich far more than the poor.  Or would you renationalise the railways so that commuters can pay lower railfares?  If you had a choice of spending your £12 billion and your am is to get rid of this "rigged economy", do you spend it on free university education or reversing social care cuts/increasing benefits etc.   

FWIW If this seems biassed against labour, I am just trying to get my head round something.

May wins hands down for brass neck this morning with "Labour deserting the working class". 

if someone can afford to go private (healthcare, schooling etc) this should be encouraged as it reduces the burden on the NHS, class sizes etc and allows those resources to be directed towards those who need them.

yes? (playing devils advocate a bit). but the existence of private means of getting healthcare, schooling etc is seen as rigging in favour of the haves over the have nots?

This is where I am torn, I don't hve anything against people with private healthcare, my issue is that there are politicians in both sides who are benefiting from the profits of private health care to the detriment of the NHS. 

The same with education I can't understand why private schools get charitable examption and don't pay as much as state schools. 

For me it's about fairness you dont necessarily have to be extreme left wng to want a more balanced society, why can't we put the general hapiness of the population ahead of failed forein policy?  Why do we let some people who are filthy rich away with paying the correct amount of tax, why do we put profit before people. 

The 6th richest country in theworld they keep telling us but there are thousands of people homeless and hungry, our NHS is crumbling, the gap between the rich and the poor is growing.  Everyone should be rewarded for an honest day's work.  We should not be bailing out low wage employerswith working tax credits. 

[RickBFA]

In what way is the economy rigged?  I just watched a video from one of Corbyn's bright young things supposedly about the rigged economy and am genuinely none the wiser.

To me this suggests that there is lots of illegal goings on, and such suggestions were only made by those in tin foil hats.  So person A only pays less tax than person B, because he is related to Lord Snooty kind of thing.

I understand how the rich do better in life as a whole, but that is because they start with more money.
I understand that those who go to public schools do better, but that is down to a better education and better connected friends/parents etc.
I understand how powerful people like to speak to other powerful people.  Human nature means that most people choose to interact with people that are going to improve their lot.
I understand why some fella with a public school/Oxbridge background may find it easier to get inside some companies than I do.
I even think things like crime, bribery and nepotism are always going to happen whether or not you rig the economy or not.

There are lots of these kind of things, but they are all explainable without any rigging going on.
For instance, I don't like the fact private schools get charitable status, but once they have it, then I don't think treating them like you would any other charity is rigging the economy.  You are on a bit of a slippery slope where you start picking which charities get which charitable status on political grounds.

So where is the rigging going on, and what does it involve?     

Nobody want to answer this?

I have done a bit more reading, and it appears to come from Bernie Saunders campaign for the Presidency. 

It seems that if the right follow their policies they are rigging the economy. 

For example if you have a policy of zero inheritance tax for all and that results in lots of sons of daughters becoming more rich than they "should" you are not following your policies, you are rigging the economy.  I am not sure if it works the other way, so if you have affirmative action in favour of some minority or some underrepresented class, then you aren't rigging the economy.  And the reason they aren't rigging the economy seems purely to be down to who benefits or who proposes the policy.  Interesting use of the English language there.

I was trying to think of policies that "rig" the economy in favour of the wealthier people, and obviously reducing inheritance tax, corporation tax and higher rate tax would be good examples, as would introducing more grammar schools.  But if you wanted to get rid of the "rigged economy", would you really offer free university education for students?    University education benefits the rich far more than the poor.  Or would you renationalise the railways so that commuters can pay lower railfares?  If you had a choice of spending your £12 billion and your am is to get rid of this "rigged economy", do you spend it on free university education or reversing social care cuts/increasing benefits etc.   

FWIW If this seems biassed against labour, I am just trying to get my head round something.

May wins hands down for brass neck this morning with "Labour deserting the working class". 

if someone can afford to go private (healthcare, schooling etc) this should be encouraged as it reduces the burden on the NHS, class sizes etc and allows those resources to be directed towards those who need them.

yes? (playing devils advocate a bit). but the existence of private means of getting healthcare, schooling etc is seen as rigging in favour of the haves over the have nots?

This is where I am torn, I don't hve anything against people with private healthcare, my issue is that there are politicians in both sides who are benefiting from the profits of private health care to the detriment of the NHS. 

The same with education I can't understand why private schools get charitable examption and don't pay as much as state schools. 

For me it's about fairness you dont necessarily have to be extreme left wng to want a more balanced society, why can't we put the general hapiness of the population ahead of failed forein policy?  Why do we let some people who are filthy rich away with paying the correct amount of tax, why do we put profit before people. 

The 6th richest country in theworld they keep telling us but there are thousands of people homeless and hungry, our NHS is crumbling, the gap between the rich and the poor is growing.  Everyone should be rewarded for an honest day's work.  We should not be bailing out low wage employerswith working tax credits. 

Since Tory Government elected two years ago, minimum wage gone from £6.70 to £7.50 now. That's an increase of 11.94% in that period.

I know it might not be enough for you but is that progress towards not bailing out low wage employers with working tax credits?

[DaveShoelace]

Amazed the Tories have become even bigger faves with the bookies overnight (Most were at 1/20 on Thursday and today at 1/40) after the cyberhack. Surely this is good for Labour? They are obviously pledging some mad dimez for the NHS and whether rightly or wrongly this smacks of a 'look how underfunded the NHS is' narrative?

[TightEnd]

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[TightEnd]

after reading some social media echo chambers,a clarification

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[TightEnd]

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[TightEnd]

Strong & stable? A government that let the NHS run on obsolete systems for years has major questions to answer about this crisis.

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[TightEnd]

Tories cut security support for outdated NHS computers a year ago despite warnings hospitals would be open to hacks

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tories-cut-security-support-outdated-10413160 …

[TightEnd]

We've run the numbers on constituencies where UKIP isn't standing. If UKIP voters go Tory it's terrible for Labour.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/a-bit-of-a-kip?utm_term=.rjoWZxn0q#.ve1A2l1Wd …

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[TightEnd]

Death of '1.5m oldsters' could swing second Brexit vote, says Ian McEwan

At Brexit conference in London, author says ‘angry old men’ are shaping UK’s future and by 2019 the mood could be different

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/12/15m-oldsters-in-their-graves-could-swing-second-eu-vote-says-ian-mcewan?CMP=twt_gu

[TightEnd]

Maymania - explaining Theresa May's appeal

The apolitical British love a warrior queen

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/theresa-mays-secret-weapon-she-exudes-erotic-appeal/

[TightEnd]

If LordAshcroft's poll is anything to go by (and with 40k sample size, it is), the LibDems' anti-Brexit strategy could cost them dear.

more on this in a bit

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[TightEnd]

ORB/Telegraph:

CON 46 (=)
LAB 32 (+1)
LD 8 (-1)
UKIP 7 (-1)

N=1,508

Writeup http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/13/exclusive-telegraph-orb-poll-conservatives-lead-across-social/ …