The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[kukushkin88]

It'll be interesting to see how history remembers these few days. PM lurches massively toward detention without trial whilst simultaneously accusing the leader of the opposition of being an ally of terrorists.

[DungBeetle]

As far as the election goes i think May has lost whatever happens.  All credibility has been undermined both by polls and how she has done on the campaign.

[Woodsey]

As far as the election goes i think May has lost whatever happens.  All credibility has been undermined both by polls and how she has done on the campaign.

It all started with the social care policy, if she hadn't got greedy with that she wouldn't be in this spot now.

[RickBFA]

Have the Sun officially tied their colours to the Tory mast yet or have we got to wait until Thursday to find out who white van man will be told to vote for?

The Sun is the Daily Mail for the working class. Has been since Gordon Brown Pissed them off.

They normally just wait to the day before then put up the 1/10 or 1/50 fav and chirp afterwards 'we knew' every 5 years

They were dead against Ed milliband way before elections, never seen his name in the sun where it wasnt "red ed" and their political bloke was so far up camerons arse he was like a father who thinks his kid is the next gazza. Would read it to know but always thought they were quite a big factor in vote determining in their readers. My Dads always been a sun reader and a massive labour supporter, but all Ive heard about the last two labour leaders is negatives, people who read that shit are so easy manipulated.

They certainly are but they (white van man, mondeo man etc etc) are very very important to winning the seats that matter to get you over the line.  Most of these types read the Sun that is why historically the Sun's backing is so important.

If you are stupid enough to read the sun, you are stupid enough to do what a billionaire tells you.

How many copies of the Sun are sold every day nowadays ?  When i was a kid i think it was about 4m.   Must be way lower than that nowadays with print media in massive decline.

It's reach goes way beyond that though, everyone who reads it talks to f***loads of people and not one of them is the sharpest tool in the box, so herd mentality kicks in. It was made very popular/fashionable to hate Milliband.

This is such a comfort blanket for you guys.   Thicko reads newspaper and speaks to other thickos. That's the only reason your superior ideals take a pummelling at the ballot box.   It's never the fact that people don't rate your ideas.

It's the least comforting thing I can think of to see how easily democracy can be undermined by mob mentality hate of individuals. A good example is to look at it is the study you regularly see where they disassociate policy from parties or people. Moderate Socialist policies are overwhelmingly popular. Then they reintroduce the link to the individual people have been trained to hate. Suddenly they hate the policy, I doubt they'd be able to tell you why though.

This ignores Labour's Achilles heel though.

Even if the policies are popular, there is an underlying trust and credibility issue.

Corbyn has voted against terror legislation and worn that like a badge of honour. He won't implement his own party's policy on defence.

The potential future Chancellor is a Marxist.

The potential future Home Secretary is a clueless clown.

These three would struggle to organise a piss up in a brewery let alone run our country.

Ultimately the British people aren't stupid - even if the left want to portray people as ignorant because they are not voting for Corbyn & Co.

Get some credible leaders and Labour might have half a chance.

[Woodsey]

...

I feel like that's not a fair assessment. Assume for a moment that our only source of news is The Sun, and all they do is smear one candidate and praise another. In this case, the majority will vote for the praised candidate because all they've heard about them is good things and all the bad parts have been missed out, so it actually has nothing to do with people not rating their ideas. It has to do with their exposure to them, and the spin that gets put on them. It's hard to rate someones ideas when you aren't properly exposed to them, and don't fully understand them as a result.

The main, and sometimes only, source of news for a lot of 18-24 year olds is social media which is full of memes and messages saying Corbyn=Good; Tory/May/Hunt/Gove (etc)=Evil

Whatever influence The Sun still has, it's about half what it was ten years ago (based on circulation of 1.5m ish); and it's more than outweighed by the over 8 million 18-24 year olds being influenced by social media groups and vested interets.

But then again these youngsters are so smart and well informed that they don't even bother to vote 

[kukushkin88]

Have the Sun officially tied their colours to the Tory mast yet or have we got to wait until Thursday to find out who white van man will be told to vote for?

The Sun is the Daily Mail for the working class. Has been since Gordon Brown Pissed them off.

They normally just wait to the day before then put up the 1/10 or 1/50 fav and chirp afterwards 'we knew' every 5 years

They were dead against Ed milliband way before elections, never seen his name in the sun where it wasnt "red ed" and their political bloke was so far up camerons arse he was like a father who thinks his kid is the next gazza. Would read it to know but always thought they were quite a big factor in vote determining in their readers. My Dads always been a sun reader and a massive labour supporter, but all Ive heard about the last two labour leaders is negatives, people who read that shit are so easy manipulated.

They certainly are but they (white van man, mondeo man etc etc) are very very important to winning the seats that matter to get you over the line.  Most of these types read the Sun that is why historically the Sun's backing is so important.

If you are stupid enough to read the sun, you are stupid enough to do what a billionaire tells you.

How many copies of the Sun are sold every day nowadays ?  When i was a kid i think it was about 4m.   Must be way lower than that nowadays with print media in massive decline.

It's reach goes way beyond that though, everyone who reads it talks to f***loads of people and not one of them is the sharpest tool in the box, so herd mentality kicks in. It was made very popular/fashionable to hate Milliband.

This is such a comfort blanket for you guys.   Thicko reads newspaper and speaks to other thickos. That's the only reason your superior ideals take a pummelling at the ballot box.   It's never the fact that people don't rate your ideas.

It's the least comforting thing I can think of to see how easily democracy can be undermined by mob mentality hate of individuals. A good example is to look at it is the study you regularly see where they disassociate policy from parties or people. Moderate Socialist policies are overwhelmingly popular. Then they reintroduce the link to the individual people have been trained to hate. Suddenly they hate the policy, I doubt they'd be able to tell you why though.

This ignores Labour's Achilles heel though.

Even if the policies are popular, there is an underlying trust and credibility issue.

Corbyn has voted against terror legislation and worn that like a badge of honour. He won't implement his own party's policy on defence.

The potential future Chancellor is a Marxist.

The potential future Home Secretary is a clueless clown.

These three would struggle to organise a piss up in a brewery let alone run our country.

Ultimately the British people aren't stupid - even if the left want to portray people as ignorant because they are not voting for Corbyn & Co.

Get some credible leaders and Labour might have half a chance.

OK, I'm really short on time but here goes:

Main Tory policy is undermine credibility of their opponents. Friedman suggested it works, he was a smart guy. It's what they're good at and it works.

JC Voted against anti terror legislation because there was no provision for judicial oversight. He's rightly proud of this, unless you're on the internment bandwagon. Lots of Con MP's did the same for the same reason.

JMcD Do you know what Marxism is? Serious question, I've met maybe half a dozen people lifetime who do.

- So useless it's painful to watch but in practical terms how could she actually be a worse HS than May? What do we think she might do?

Have a good couple of days all. That's me done until after the election.

[Cavey007]

Right on cue, the front of The Sun and Mail today. A straightforward and disgraceful attempt to undermine democracy with lies.

Yep both of them going full on for it. Corbyn is a terrorist. The express saying to vote tory or we all die. The mirror has a wrap around for a TV show...

[arbboy]

Abbott has incredibly fell ill a day before the election.  Surprised she didn't fall ill a few weeks ago to save all the gaffs!  It's as well scripted as the WWE!

[JohnCharver]

Abbott has incredibly fell ill a day before the election.  Surprised she didn't fall ill a few weeks ago to save all the gaffs!  It's as well scripted as the WWE!

Shes given people what they asked for? Shes just an excuse for people who want to vote tory anyway imo, a simple excuse for doing what they always do, just this time theres no real reason to.

On the Sun stuff, I regard the guardian the same way, newspapers should be about reporting the facts and noone should buy a paper solely focused on telling you what to do. We ridicule countries with state run media industries then allow them to be run in such a way.

[nirvana]

Abbott has incredibly fell ill a day before the election.  Surprised she didn't fall ill a few weeks ago to save all the gaffs!  It's as well scripted as the WWE!

Shes given people what they asked for? Shes just an excuse for people who want to vote tory anyway imo, a simple excuse for doing what they always do, just this time theres no real reason to.

On the Sun stuff, I regard the guardian the same way, newspapers should be about reporting the facts and noone should buy a paper solely focused on telling you what to do. We ridicule countries with state run media industries then allow them to be run in such a way.

Hard to agree with this..lots of positives in the scrutiny the press provides and I don't really see an issue with this coming from a particular perspective. The more perspectives the better arguably

[BigAdz]

So with one day today, we have seen some incredible debate on here.

Despite that, I doubt one single person has changed their opinion, or the way they will vote.

The general feeling seems to be that no one is overly trusting of the Tories, even the Tory voters. No one seems to have a great deal of faith in May, and everyone seems to agree her opportunistic calling of an election, has deservedly cost her a lot of sleepless nights.

I thought she was doing ok before the election, but it has certainly raised concerns for me, over her true ability to govern.

The crux for the nation, seems to be that Corbyn seems to be a nice principled bloke, but with the team around him, it looks like it could be an unmitigated disaster.

Yes, he is principled, and a nice bloke, well liked by all that meet him, but so is my Dad. I wouldn't trust my Dad to run a sweet shop, and that's how I feel about Corbyn.

The Reds in the house, probably, rightly point out that neither could May et al, but seem blinkered to the fools that are riding Corbyns coat tails, and are happy just to see Labour get in, regardless.

In conclusion. Its a right old mess.

For me the person that has impressed me the most, has been the lady from the Green Party. EVery time I have seen her, she has seemed cogent, and not put a foot wrong. Sadly a vote for her is a wasted vote.

GL all of us after tomorrow!

[Doobs]

Diane Abbott has resigned as shadow home secretary due to ill health.  Replaced by Lyn Brown.

[DaveShoelace]

Diane Abbott has resigned as shadow home secretary due to ill health.  Replaced by Lyn Brown.

Taking one for the team methinks.

She did look really ill on the Sky interview to be fair.

[BigAdz]

Diane Abbott has resigned as shadow home secretary due to ill health.  Replaced by Lyn Brown.

Taking one for the team methinks.

She did look really ill on the Sky interview to be fair.

I very much doubt she took one for the team. She was pushed. 1.01

[titaniumbean]

...

I feel like that's not a fair assessment. Assume for a moment that our only source of news is The Sun, and all they do is smear one candidate and praise another. In this case, the majority will vote for the praised candidate because all they've heard about them is good things and all the bad parts have been missed out, so it actually has nothing to do with people not rating their ideas. It has to do with their exposure to them, and the spin that gets put on them. It's hard to rate someones ideas when you aren't properly exposed to them, and don't fully understand them as a result.

The main, and sometimes only, source of news for a lot of 18-24 year olds is social media which is full of memes and messages saying Corbyn=Good; Tory/May/Hunt/Gove (etc)=Evil

Whatever influence The Sun still has, it's about half what it was ten years ago (based on circulation of 1.5m ish); and it's more than outweighed by the over 8 million 18-24 year olds being influenced by social media groups and vested interets.

Social media is owned by one old bigoted childrens phone hacking money grabbing non tax paying non English wankmuffin?

I get your point but Murdoch still needs to fuck off and die.

Very true, propaganda on both side of the fences to influence their audience. Any notion that the left is 'informed' and the right are thickos is just bullshit, you have informed and thickos on both sides of the spectrum. This is the same bullshit that was peddled with Brexit too.

+1  and in the middle and outside the edges. there are just alot of thickos!

Abbott has incredibly fell ill a day before the election.  Surprised she didn't fall ill a few weeks ago to save all the gaffs!  It's as well scripted as the WWE!

How dare you and your modern WWE name say this. it's disgraceful, WWF was not and will never be scripted. It's just goddam great entertainment 

Abbott has incredibly fell ill a day before the election.  Surprised she didn't fall ill a few weeks ago to save all the gaffs!  It's as well scripted as the WWE!

Shes given people what they asked for? Shes just an excuse for people who want to vote tory anyway imo, a simple excuse for doing what they always do, just this time theres no real reason to.

On the Sun stuff, I regard the guardian the same way, newspapers should be about reporting the facts and noone should buy a paper solely focused on telling you what to do. We ridicule countries with state run media industries then allow them to be run in such a way.

Hard to agree with this..lots of positives in the scrutiny the press provides and I don't really see an issue with this coming from a particular perspective. The more perspectives the better arguably

what happens when one conglomerate owns most of the news and pushes his own personal desires only? it's hardly a perspective of value to the UK what a super rich bigoted Australian wanker thinks?!



Abbot out is brilliant brilliant news!!