The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[Cf]

Just saw a pic of Richard Dimbleby on the BBC site. He reminds me of someone...

[titaniumbean]

yes exactly my point!


those at fault just made huge profits and live on their boats in the BVI. whilst everyone else got fucked by the economy tanking and many not involved people losing their jobs.

if you do something illegal and make money the government take that money (and waste it), in this instance those who committed the actual crimes were allowed to keep their money.....

There were no crimes committed in general though were there?  Poor risk management, excessive leverage and bad loans for sure. However it's not a crime to be crap at your job.  How aforementioned crap workers get to get massive bonuses because people think it is going well is another matter. 

The government were the ones to unregulate and let them run wild, for a situation to affect so many people detrimentally that just implies there has been a catastrophic failure in our justice system.

They even had messages exchanged on the inter bank systems talking about how toxic and shit they were but how churn rate provided great expectations of bonuses. There should be criminality found somewhere.

Especially when we have 'crimes' for such unaffecting things that disproportionately target the poor. It's a farce.

They are selling securitised debt so of course the more they shift the more they make.  If punters are willing to buy mezz tranches at overvalue in a free market then where is the crime?  The problem happens when you've got retail operations and punto derivatives in the same bank and the new ring fencing rules have put a stop to that.  No idea why it has taken 10 years though.

it's just a freeroll though, sell alot of ticking timebombs profit and leave, shit hits the fan limited claw back occurs. Wait a few years have another form of bubble/scam and rich get richer poor get poorer and yada yada. It's frustrating.

To offer a counter argument if your ordinary joes didn't borrow what they couldn't afford then it never happens.  There are more people being greedy than just the structured credit trading desks.  Mortgage providers.  The borrowers themselves.  Everyone went nuts.

absolutely but when the high ups in a bank giving them out don't understand them how is the averge joe meant to. they were told heres free money buy a house it's easy profit and a whole generation seem to think they were brilliant business minds for being born at a time to take advantage of it. 

[RickBFA]

The UK prints its own currency, it does not have a debt problem or a deficit problem.

Both labour and tories speak utter rubbish on this subject, usually knowingly but often out of sheer ignorance which is worse.

This is probably basic economic literacy, so forgive my ignorance - on the ONS report it shows in 16/17 central government paid interest payments of £49.1 billion gross and £36 billion net on Government debt.

Where is that interest payment going to if we don't have a debt issue?

I was being a little sarcastic with this post.

Gilts, bonds, quantative easing are not some sort of magic consequence free bullets.

We do pay significant chunks of national income on interest payments and although some debt is too ourselves, we still owe money to foreign institutions, pension funds, joe public etc.

Don't you think saying we don't have a debt or deficit problem is a gross simplification?

[DungBeetle]

The UK prints its own currency, it does not have a debt problem or a deficit problem.

Both labour and tories speak utter rubbish on this subject, usually knowingly but often out of sheer ignorance which is worse.

This is probably basic economic literacy, so forgive my ignorance - on the ONS report it shows in 16/17 central government paid interest payments of £49.1 billion gross and £36 billion net on Government debt.

Where is that interest payment going to if we don't have a debt issue?

I was being a little sarcastic with this post.

Gilts, bonds, quantative easing are not some sort of magic consequence free bullets.

We do pay significant chunks of national income on interest payments and although some debt is too ourselves, we still owe money to foreign institutions, pension funds, joe public etc.

Don't you think saying we don't have a debt or deficit problem is a gross simplification?

I think you will get a reply on sectoral balances.  Modern Monetary Theory is quite interesting but for some reason fans of it can get a bit obsessive which leads them to reject all other views.

[DungBeetle]

yes exactly my point!


those at fault just made huge profits and live on their boats in the BVI. whilst everyone else got fucked by the economy tanking and many not involved people losing their jobs.

if you do something illegal and make money the government take that money (and waste it), in this instance those who committed the actual crimes were allowed to keep their money.....

There were no crimes committed in general though were there?  Poor risk management, excessive leverage and bad loans for sure. However it's not a crime to be crap at your job.  How aforementioned crap workers get to get massive bonuses because people think it is going well is another matter. 

The government were the ones to unregulate and let them run wild, for a situation to affect so many people detrimentally that just implies there has been a catastrophic failure in our justice system.

They even had messages exchanged on the inter bank systems talking about how toxic and shit they were but how churn rate provided great expectations of bonuses. There should be criminality found somewhere.

Especially when we have 'crimes' for such unaffecting things that disproportionately target the poor. It's a farce.

They are selling securitised debt so of course the more they shift the more they make.  If punters are willing to buy mezz tranches at overvalue in a free market then where is the crime?  The problem happens when you've got retail operations and punto derivatives in the same bank and the new ring fencing rules have put a stop to that.  No idea why it has taken 10 years though.

it's just a freeroll though, sell alot of ticking timebombs profit and leave, shit hits the fan limited claw back occurs. Wait a few years have another form of bubble/scam and rich get richer poor get poorer and yada yada. It's frustrating.

To offer a counter argument if your ordinary joes didn't borrow what they couldn't afford then it never happens.  There are more people being greedy than just the structured credit trading desks.  Mortgage providers.  The borrowers themselves.  Everyone went nuts.

absolutely but when the high ups in a bank giving them out don't understand them how is the averge joe meant to. they were told heres free money buy a house it's easy profit and a whole generation seem to think they were brilliant business minds for being born at a time to take advantage of it. 

The interactions between mortgage providers and the Joes were just normal mortgages (although admittedly it started getting a bit funky with balloon mortgages.) The Joes still should have shown restraint imo.

[titaniumbean]

The Joes are Joes, the suits who used to have a responsibility just preyed on them. When the man in the bank say yes ofcourse you can have this much money he 'must know something right' hes the bank. Oh wait no he's a twat. marvelous.

[DungBeetle]

The Joes are Joes, the suits who used to have a responsibility just preyed on them. When the man in the bank say yes ofcourse you can have this much money he 'must know something right' hes the bank. Oh wait no he's a twat. marvelous.

Meh.  Stupidity is not much of an excuse.  Joes were greedy.  Banks were greedy.  Blame all round.

[titaniumbean]

The Joes are Joes, the suits who used to have a responsibility just preyed on them. When the man in the bank say yes ofcourse you can have this much money he 'must know something right' hes the bank. Oh wait no he's a twat. marvelous.

Meh.  Stupidity is not much of an excuse.  Joes were greedy.  Banks were greedy.  Blame all round.

yeh for sure but if you try and buy something underage 'trying' isn't illegal it's the 'responsibility' of the company to do due diligence. they should foot the main punishment, it should be taken as given that gen pop are cretins.

[Woodsey]

 

[arbboy]

RIP TM.

[Cf]

Wow. That's TM gone then.

[RickBFA]

Wow. Going to be fascinating.

[PokerBroker]

FML piled on 350 - 399

[arbboy]

Amazing how that poll doesn't leak at all.  The betfair market literally doesn't react to the second Dimbles speaks.  Then it goes crazy.

[BigAdz]

RIP TM.

Please explain. I'm out at mo