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Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 1748251 times)
PokerBroker
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« Reply #10200 on: June 17, 2017, 12:49:17 PM »

Devil's advocate here. Say this happened 3 days before the general election, do Labour win?

Been thinking about this a lot, and I think yes, 100%. We'll never know of course, but I think this tragedy means we will NOT have another general election anytime soon.

 

How about an uprising?

What was it to the late great Bob Crow said 'spit on your own you won't achieve anything spit together and we can drown the bastards'

Or as Connolly said of Ireland 'If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.'

Hopefully the people are wakening up.


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kukushkin88
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« Reply #10201 on: June 17, 2017, 12:54:16 PM »

Devil's advocate here. Say this happened 3 days before the general election, do Labour win?

Been thinking about this a lot, and I think yes, 100%. We'll never know of course, but I think this tragedy means we will NOT have another general election anytime soon.

 

How about an uprising?

What was it to the late great Bob Crow said 'spit on your own you won't achieve anything spit together and we can drown the bastards'

Or as Connolly said of Ireland 'If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.'

Hopefully the people are wakening up.




Feels like my politics are getting more left wing by the day. Not because of any events, just from reading and listening to people from all across the political spectrum. Love this ^. I really do hope they are waking up.
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #10202 on: June 17, 2017, 02:47:17 PM »

hot days are always good days for a bit of public disorder to ferment.

it'll be pretty ridiculous if riots can occur because a known drug dealer and gun using gangster gets shot (by people who shoot a handful of bullets a year and who then we say wow you're so great good job when they shoot 3-4 years worth of bullets in 10 seconds against terrorists) but people cant find the frustration to get out on the streets and protest at the lies and incompetence on show from Theresa May alone. She is undoubtedly not to blame for this specific tower, but someone has to be the face of the previous government decision makers, someone has to hold her to account for her lies, and her parties pathetic attempts to profiteer at the expense of the electorate. Shes willing to prop herself up with some pretty extreme people just for the sake of power, a public showing of disgust and unwillingness to accept her and this group of gits seems more than reasonable. if it does happen it will undoubtedly be abused by people who just enjoy smashing shit up and want to steal stuff.
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #10203 on: June 17, 2017, 03:33:22 PM »

I may have missed this but which party has the local MP in the Grenhall area?

Who make up the majority of the council?

She only just got elected, so a little harsh. Though she was allegedly on the housing committee of the council and on the board of the Kensington and Chelsea Tennant Management organisation.  For more balance she claims to have campaigned on behalf of the tennants.

But as above, if you are a person who has way more responsibility than the average joe, maybe you shouldn't be pointing fingers.  


Emotions are running high on these issues. Blaming the current party in power is too simplistic.

It seems to me that a number of factors came together at one time which caused this horrific outcome.

I'm not saying politicians/councils/authorities are blameless but the reality is this could have easily happened under a Blair Government in 2005 or a Brown Government in 2009.

Were the safety/building regulations any better then?

The key is making sure this never happens again.

To compare to governments going back 20+ years is not very fruitful. Maybe it could have happened in a previous time but it didn't.

If anyone is to blame it's the council not necessarily the government. Governments don't have a lot of control over local projects.

The anger I can understand though. This tradegy is becoming a focal point and highlighting what's happened to some of the poorest areas in the UK over the last 10 years.
 You have a 8 mil refurb to make it look pretty in upmarket Kensington in a time of suplosed austerity.
It appears the cladding could be directly responsible for the perfect storm that meant it got so out of control so quickly. Done on the cheap it seems to save money.

You have people who have raised fire safety for a number of years being ignored about the concern. Bo jo telling officials to get stuffed at the London assembly when they raise issues of cuts to the fire service.

Post tradegy the governments response has been terrible, Which is why the anger is being directed there. TM didn't have the decency to face the public. The survivors are still sleeping on floors, others that are in similar blocks of flats have no clarity on how safe their homes are. Damian green just said they won'tbe respectively fitting sprinklers to tower blocks.

All this comes just days after being told the age of austerity is over. Essentially telling us all (which a lot knew) that austerity was a political choice not an economic necessity.

No wonder people are so incredibly angry about this they have every right to be.

Austerity is not a political choice.  You've got more chance staying in power if you can spend freely and reduce taxes.  It might have been the wrong economic choice but the notion that the Tories enjoy cutting disability benefit like an evil super villain is simply nonsense.
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #10204 on: June 17, 2017, 03:40:06 PM »

I may have missed this but which party has the local MP in the Grenhall area?

Who make up the majority of the council?

She only just got elected, so a little harsh. Though she was allegedly on the housing committee of the council and on the board of the Kensington and Chelsea Tennant Management organisation.  For more balance she claims to have campaigned on behalf of the tennants.

But as above, if you are a person who has way more responsibility than the average joe, maybe you shouldn't be pointing fingers.  


Emotions are running high on these issues. Blaming the current party in power is too simplistic.

It seems to me that a number of factors came together at one time which caused this horrific outcome.

I'm not saying politicians/councils/authorities are blameless but the reality is this could have easily happened under a Blair Government in 2005 or a Brown Government in 2009.

Were the safety/building regulations any better then?

The key is making sure this never happens again.

To compare to governments going back 20+ years is not very fruitful. Maybe it could have happened in a previous time but it didn't.

If anyone is to blame it's the council not necessarily the government. Governments don't have a lot of control over local projects.

The anger I can understand though. This tradegy is becoming a focal point and highlighting what's happened to some of the poorest areas in the UK over the last 10 years.
 You have a 8 mil refurb to make it look pretty in upmarket Kensington in a time of suplosed austerity.
It appears the cladding could be directly responsible for the perfect storm that meant it got so out of control so quickly. Done on the cheap it seems to save money.

You have people who have raised fire safety for a number of years being ignored about the concern. Bo jo telling officials to get stuffed at the London assembly when they raise issues of cuts to the fire service.

Post tradegy the governments response has been terrible, Which is why the anger is being directed there. TM didn't have the decency to face the public. The survivors are still sleeping on floors, others that are in similar blocks of flats have no clarity on how safe their homes are. Damian green just said they won'tbe respectively fitting sprinklers to tower blocks.

All this comes just days after being told the age of austerity is over. Essentially telling us all (which a lot knew) that austerity was a political choice not an economic necessity.

No wonder people are so incredibly angry about this they have every right to be.

Austerity is not a political choice.  You've got more chance staying in power if you can spend freely and reduce taxes.  It might have been the wrong economic choice but the notion that the Tories enjoy cutting disability benefit like an evil super villain is simply nonsense.

the people who voted to cut disabled peoples money by minimal amounts spent millions on wine, and claimed to have their ducks house renovated whilst earning 6 figures.

They declared people fit for work who literally died soon after from their ill health.

They absolutely chose to fk people who couldn't fight back or donate enough to the party over.


edit-
the bolded bit is the key point, not that the system is rigged to allow them to claim stupid expenses even after a huge scandal showing it was basically just stealing, we just changed the rules so they could still do it, much like surveillance we legalised the illegalities they were doing rather than punishing/stopping it.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 03:43:41 PM by titaniumbean » Logged
kukushkin88
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« Reply #10205 on: June 17, 2017, 03:41:01 PM »

I may have missed this but which party has the local MP in the Grenhall area?

Who make up the majority of the council?

She only just got elected, so a little harsh. Though she was allegedly on the housing committee of the council and on the board of the Kensington and Chelsea Tennant Management organisation.  For more balance she claims to have campaigned on behalf of the tennants.

But as above, if you are a person who has way more responsibility than the average joe, maybe you shouldn't be pointing fingers.  


Emotions are running high on these issues. Blaming the current party in power is too simplistic.

It seems to me that a number of factors came together at one time which caused this horrific outcome.

I'm not saying politicians/councils/authorities are blameless but the reality is this could have easily happened under a Blair Government in 2005 or a Brown Government in 2009.

Were the safety/building regulations any better then?

The key is making sure this never happens again.

To compare to governments going back 20+ years is not very fruitful. Maybe it could have happened in a previous time but it didn't.

If anyone is to blame it's the council not necessarily the government. Governments don't have a lot of control over local projects.

The anger I can understand though. This tradegy is becoming a focal point and highlighting what's happened to some of the poorest areas in the UK over the last 10 years.
 You have a 8 mil refurb to make it look pretty in upmarket Kensington in a time of suplosed austerity.
It appears the cladding could be directly responsible for the perfect storm that meant it got so out of control so quickly. Done on the cheap it seems to save money.

You have people who have raised fire safety for a number of years being ignored about the concern. Bo jo telling officials to get stuffed at the London assembly when they raise issues of cuts to the fire service.

Post tradegy the governments response has been terrible, Which is why the anger is being directed there. TM didn't have the decency to face the public. The survivors are still sleeping on floors, others that are in similar blocks of flats have no clarity on how safe their homes are. Damian green just said they won'tbe respectively fitting sprinklers to tower blocks.

All this comes just days after being told the age of austerity is over. Essentially telling us all (which a lot knew) that austerity was a political choice not an economic necessity.

No wonder people are so incredibly angry about this they have every right to be.

Austerity is not a political choice.  You've got more chance staying in power if you can spend freely and reduce taxes.  It might have been the wrong economic choice but the notion that the Tories enjoy cutting disability benefit like an evil super villain is simply nonsense.

I couldn't disagree with this more. My main interface with media is FT and The Times and watching Sky News. I watch the BBC Parliament channel more than any other. I really do think the 'dyed in the wool' Tory core vote love the idea of squeezing the poor/less capable.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #10206 on: June 17, 2017, 03:42:58 PM »

I may have missed this but which party has the local MP in the Grenhall area?

Who make up the majority of the council?

She only just got elected, so a little harsh. Though she was allegedly on the housing committee of the council and on the board of the Kensington and Chelsea Tennant Management organisation.  For more balance she claims to have campaigned on behalf of the tennants.

But as above, if you are a person who has way more responsibility than the average joe, maybe you shouldn't be pointing fingers.  


Emotions are running high on these issues. Blaming the current party in power is too simplistic.

It seems to me that a number of factors came together at one time which caused this horrific outcome.

I'm not saying politicians/councils/authorities are blameless but the reality is this could have easily happened under a Blair Government in 2005 or a Brown Government in 2009.

Were the safety/building regulations any better then?

The key is making sure this never happens again.

To compare to governments going back 20+ years is not very fruitful. Maybe it could have happened in a previous time but it didn't.

If anyone is to blame it's the council not necessarily the government. Governments don't have a lot of control over local projects.

The anger I can understand though. This tradegy is becoming a focal point and highlighting what's happened to some of the poorest areas in the UK over the last 10 years.
 You have a 8 mil refurb to make it look pretty in upmarket Kensington in a time of suplosed austerity.
It appears the cladding could be directly responsible for the perfect storm that meant it got so out of control so quickly. Done on the cheap it seems to save money.

You have people who have raised fire safety for a number of years being ignored about the concern. Bo jo telling officials to get stuffed at the London assembly when they raise issues of cuts to the fire service.

Post tradegy the governments response has been terrible, Which is why the anger is being directed there. TM didn't have the decency to face the public. The survivors are still sleeping on floors, others that are in similar blocks of flats have no clarity on how safe their homes are. Damian green just said they won'tbe respectively fitting sprinklers to tower blocks.

All this comes just days after being told the age of austerity is over. Essentially telling us all (which a lot knew) that austerity was a political choice not an economic necessity.

No wonder people are so incredibly angry about this they have every right to be.

Austerity is not a political choice.  You've got more chance staying in power if you can spend freely and reduce taxes.  It might have been the wrong economic choice but the notion that the Tories enjoy cutting disability benefit like an evil super villain is simply nonsense.

I couldn't disagree with this more. My main interface with media is FT and The Times and watching Sky News. I watch the BBC Parliament channel more than any other. I really do think the 'dyed in the wool' Tory core vote love the idea of squeezing the poor/less capable.

And they know it.
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #10207 on: June 17, 2017, 03:59:50 PM »

I may have missed this but which party has the local MP in the Grenhall area?

Who make up the majority of the council?

She only just got elected, so a little harsh. Though she was allegedly on the housing committee of the council and on the board of the Kensington and Chelsea Tennant Management organisation.  For more balance she claims to have campaigned on behalf of the tennants.

But as above, if you are a person who has way more responsibility than the average joe, maybe you shouldn't be pointing fingers.  


Emotions are running high on these issues. Blaming the current party in power is too simplistic.

It seems to me that a number of factors came together at one time which caused this horrific outcome.

I'm not saying politicians/councils/authorities are blameless but the reality is this could have easily happened under a Blair Government in 2005 or a Brown Government in 2009.

Were the safety/building regulations any better then?

The key is making sure this never happens again.

To compare to governments going back 20+ years is not very fruitful. Maybe it could have happened in a previous time but it didn't.

If anyone is to blame it's the council not necessarily the government. Governments don't have a lot of control over local projects.

The anger I can understand though. This tradegy is becoming a focal point and highlighting what's happened to some of the poorest areas in the UK over the last 10 years.
 You have a 8 mil refurb to make it look pretty in upmarket Kensington in a time of suplosed austerity.
It appears the cladding could be directly responsible for the perfect storm that meant it got so out of control so quickly. Done on the cheap it seems to save money.

You have people who have raised fire safety for a number of years being ignored about the concern. Bo jo telling officials to get stuffed at the London assembly when they raise issues of cuts to the fire service.

Post tradegy the governments response has been terrible, Which is why the anger is being directed there. TM didn't have the decency to face the public. The survivors are still sleeping on floors, others that are in similar blocks of flats have no clarity on how safe their homes are. Damian green just said they won'tbe respectively fitting sprinklers to tower blocks.

All this comes just days after being told the age of austerity is over. Essentially telling us all (which a lot knew) that austerity was a political choice not an economic necessity.

No wonder people are so incredibly angry about this they have every right to be.

Austerity is not a political choice.  You've got more chance staying in power if you can spend freely and reduce taxes.  It might have been the wrong economic choice but the notion that the Tories enjoy cutting disability benefit like an evil super villain is simply nonsense.

I couldn't disagree with this more. My main interface with media is FT and The Times and watching Sky News. I watch the BBC Parliament channel more than any other. I really do think the 'dyed in the wool' Tory core vote love the idea of squeezing the poor/less capable.

Fair enough you can go with the evil super villain narrative.  My opinion is that is a fantasy notion created by people who just like to hate the Tories.  My view is that they have just performed poorly in government and there is no malice there.
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #10208 on: June 17, 2017, 04:01:58 PM »

I may have missed this but which party has the local MP in the Grenhall area?

Who make up the majority of the council?

She only just got elected, so a little harsh. Though she was allegedly on the housing committee of the council and on the board of the Kensington and Chelsea Tennant Management organisation.  For more balance she claims to have campaigned on behalf of the tennants.

But as above, if you are a person who has way more responsibility than the average joe, maybe you shouldn't be pointing fingers.  


Emotions are running high on these issues. Blaming the current party in power is too simplistic.

It seems to me that a number of factors came together at one time which caused this horrific outcome.

I'm not saying politicians/councils/authorities are blameless but the reality is this could have easily happened under a Blair Government in 2005 or a Brown Government in 2009.

Were the safety/building regulations any better then?

The key is making sure this never happens again.

To compare to governments going back 20+ years is not very fruitful. Maybe it could have happened in a previous time but it didn't.

If anyone is to blame it's the council not necessarily the government. Governments don't have a lot of control over local projects.

The anger I can understand though. This tradegy is becoming a focal point and highlighting what's happened to some of the poorest areas in the UK over the last 10 years.
 You have a 8 mil refurb to make it look pretty in upmarket Kensington in a time of suplosed austerity.
It appears the cladding could be directly responsible for the perfect storm that meant it got so out of control so quickly. Done on the cheap it seems to save money.

You have people who have raised fire safety for a number of years being ignored about the concern. Bo jo telling officials to get stuffed at the London assembly when they raise issues of cuts to the fire service.

Post tradegy the governments response has been terrible, Which is why the anger is being directed there. TM didn't have the decency to face the public. The survivors are still sleeping on floors, others that are in similar blocks of flats have no clarity on how safe their homes are. Damian green just said they won'tbe respectively fitting sprinklers to tower blocks.

All this comes just days after being told the age of austerity is over. Essentially telling us all (which a lot knew) that austerity was a political choice not an economic necessity.

No wonder people are so incredibly angry about this they have every right to be.

Austerity is not a political choice.  You've got more chance staying in power if you can spend freely and reduce taxes.  It might have been the wrong economic choice but the notion that the Tories enjoy cutting disability benefit like an evil super villain is simply nonsense.

the people who voted to cut disabled peoples money by minimal amounts spent millions on wine, and claimed to have their ducks house renovated whilst earning 6 figures.

They declared people fit for work who literally died soon after from their ill health.

They absolutely chose to fk people who couldn't fight back or donate enough to the party over.


edit-
the bolded bit is the key point, not that the system is rigged to allow them to claim stupid expenses even after a huge scandal showing it was basically just stealing, we just changed the rules so they could still do it, much like surveillance we legalised the illegalities they were doing rather than punishing/stopping it.

Not even sure what your point is here.  Just seems a random rant about all MP expenses, wine in the House of Parliament and disability assessment.
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #10209 on: June 17, 2017, 04:05:59 PM »

yeh how could it be related


we gotta cuts costs guys, *slurps expensive wine* that guy who can't walk seems an easy target let's cut the money he uses to have food delivered to him.... LOL Austerity



how can you not see the 'random rant' for a criticism of their prioritizing themselves and people that can keep them in power versus ones whose voices will never be heard. they clearly value people differently.
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #10210 on: June 17, 2017, 04:16:49 PM »

yeh how could it be related


we gotta cuts costs guys, *slurps expensive wine* that guy who can't walk seems an easy target let's cut the money he uses to have food delivered to him.... LOL Austerity



how can you not see the 'random rant' for a criticism of their prioritizing themselves and people that can keep them in power versus ones whose voices will never be heard. they clearly value people differently.

MPs get underpaid compared to what they could receive in the private sector.  The wine perk budget is at a guess quite small compared to items like defence, welfare and education where real decisions need to be made.  Complaining about it and using it as a stick to beat the Tories seems pretty childish to be honest.  Do you think the Tories alone drink wine and claim expenses?
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« Reply #10211 on: June 17, 2017, 04:19:22 PM »

I may have missed this but which party has the local MP in the Grenhall area?

Who make up the majority of the council?

She only just got elected, so a little harsh. Though she was allegedly on the housing committee of the council and on the board of the Kensington and Chelsea Tennant Management organisation.  For more balance she claims to have campaigned on behalf of the tennants.

But as above, if you are a person who has way more responsibility than the average joe, maybe you shouldn't be pointing fingers.  


Emotions are running high on these issues. Blaming the current party in power is too simplistic.

It seems to me that a number of factors came together at one time which caused this horrific outcome.

I'm not saying politicians/councils/authorities are blameless but the reality is this could have easily happened under a Blair Government in 2005 or a Brown Government in 2009.

Were the safety/building regulations any better then?

The key is making sure this never happens again.

To compare to governments going back 20+ years is not very fruitful. Maybe it could have happened in a previous time but it didn't.

If anyone is to blame it's the council not necessarily the government. Governments don't have a lot of control over local projects.

The anger I can understand though. This tradegy is becoming a focal point and highlighting what's happened to some of the poorest areas in the UK over the last 10 years.
 You have a 8 mil refurb to make it look pretty in upmarket Kensington in a time of suplosed austerity.
It appears the cladding could be directly responsible for the perfect storm that meant it got so out of control so quickly. Done on the cheap it seems to save money.

You have people who have raised fire safety for a number of years being ignored about the concern. Bo jo telling officials to get stuffed at the London assembly when they raise issues of cuts to the fire service.

Post tradegy the governments response has been terrible, Which is why the anger is being directed there. TM didn't have the decency to face the public. The survivors are still sleeping on floors, others that are in similar blocks of flats have no clarity on how safe their homes are. Damian green just said they won'tbe respectively fitting sprinklers to tower blocks.

All this comes just days after being told the age of austerity is over. Essentially telling us all (which a lot knew) that austerity was a political choice not an economic necessity.

No wonder people are so incredibly angry about this they have every right to be.

Austerity is not a political choice.  You've got more chance staying in power if you can spend freely and reduce taxes.  It might have been the wrong economic choice but the notion that the Tories enjoy cutting disability benefit like an evil super villain is simply nonsense.

I disagree how can 11 days ago or whatever it be that the conservatives fought  a campaign based on further austerity and then 2 days after the election decide it's not working anymore and to completely U turn on it.
It hasn't been working for 10 years and they knew it for certainly for the last few years at least.
Meaning it was a political choice to pursue austerity not one born out of economic need. The only reason they dumped it is it nearly cost them an election.
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #10212 on: June 17, 2017, 04:20:00 PM »

yeh how could it be related


we gotta cuts costs guys, *slurps expensive wine* that guy who can't walk seems an easy target let's cut the money he uses to have food delivered to him.... LOL Austerity



how can you not see the 'random rant' for a criticism of their prioritizing themselves and people that can keep them in power versus ones whose voices will never be heard. they clearly value people differently.

MPs get underpaid compared to what they could receive in the private sector.  The wine perk budget is at a guess quite small compared to items like defence, welfare and education where real decisions need to be made.  Complaining about it and using it as a stick to beat the Tories seems pretty childish to be honest.  Do you think the Tories alone drink wine and claim expenses?


They are all at fault, they are all clearly underpaid look at the shoddy shits we have.

That I do not doubt.



How can you in good conscience think it's better to cut the disableds money by a tiny amount instead of for example 1 of a million stupid things like wine, when people cant afford a roof over their heads or to feed themselves.

It's about priorities. and clearly the people in charge value different peoples lives very differently.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #10213 on: June 17, 2017, 04:20:36 PM »

I may have missed this but which party has the local MP in the Grenhall area?

Who make up the majority of the council?

She only just got elected, so a little harsh. Though she was allegedly on the housing committee of the council and on the board of the Kensington and Chelsea Tennant Management organisation.  For more balance she claims to have campaigned on behalf of the tennants.

But as above, if you are a person who has way more responsibility than the average joe, maybe you shouldn't be pointing fingers.  


Emotions are running high on these issues. Blaming the current party in power is too simplistic.

It seems to me that a number of factors came together at one time which caused this horrific outcome.

I'm not saying politicians/councils/authorities are blameless but the reality is this could have easily happened under a Blair Government in 2005 or a Brown Government in 2009.

Were the safety/building regulations any better then?

The key is making sure this never happens again.

To compare to governments going back 20+ years is not very fruitful. Maybe it could have happened in a previous time but it didn't.

If anyone is to blame it's the council not necessarily the government. Governments don't have a lot of control over local projects.

The anger I can understand though. This tradegy is becoming a focal point and highlighting what's happened to some of the poorest areas in the UK over the last 10 years.
 You have a 8 mil refurb to make it look pretty in upmarket Kensington in a time of suplosed austerity.
It appears the cladding could be directly responsible for the perfect storm that meant it got so out of control so quickly. Done on the cheap it seems to save money.

You have people who have raised fire safety for a number of years being ignored about the concern. Bo jo telling officials to get stuffed at the London assembly when they raise issues of cuts to the fire service.

Post tradegy the governments response has been terrible, Which is why the anger is being directed there. TM didn't have the decency to face the public. The survivors are still sleeping on floors, others that are in similar blocks of flats have no clarity on how safe their homes are. Damian green just said they won'tbe respectively fitting sprinklers to tower blocks.

All this comes just days after being told the age of austerity is over. Essentially telling us all (which a lot knew) that austerity was a political choice not an economic necessity.

No wonder people are so incredibly angry about this they have every right to be.

Austerity is not a political choice.  You've got more chance staying in power if you can spend freely and reduce taxes.  It might have been the wrong economic choice but the notion that the Tories enjoy cutting disability benefit like an evil super villain is simply nonsense.

I couldn't disagree with this more. My main interface with media is FT and The Times and watching Sky News. I watch the BBC Parliament channel more than any other. I really do think the 'dyed in the wool' Tory core vote love the idea of squeezing the poor/less capable.

Fair enough you can go with the evil super villain narrative.  My opinion is that is a fantasy notion created by people who just like to hate the Tories.  My view is that they have just performed poorly in government and there is no malice there.

And that's fine and it's great that you've engaged in politics.
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #10214 on: June 17, 2017, 04:30:46 PM »

I may have missed this but which party has the local MP in the Grenhall area?

Who make up the majority of the council?

She only just got elected, so a little harsh. Though she was allegedly on the housing committee of the council and on the board of the Kensington and Chelsea Tennant Management organisation.  For more balance she claims to have campaigned on behalf of the tennants.

But as above, if you are a person who has way more responsibility than the average joe, maybe you shouldn't be pointing fingers.  


Emotions are running high on these issues. Blaming the current party in power is too simplistic.

It seems to me that a number of factors came together at one time which caused this horrific outcome.

I'm not saying politicians/councils/authorities are blameless but the reality is this could have easily happened under a Blair Government in 2005 or a Brown Government in 2009.

Were the safety/building regulations any better then?

The key is making sure this never happens again.

To compare to governments going back 20+ years is not very fruitful. Maybe it could have happened in a previous time but it didn't.

If anyone is to blame it's the council not necessarily the government. Governments don't have a lot of control over local projects.

The anger I can understand though. This tradegy is becoming a focal point and highlighting what's happened to some of the poorest areas in the UK over the last 10 years.
 You have a 8 mil refurb to make it look pretty in upmarket Kensington in a time of suplosed austerity.
It appears the cladding could be directly responsible for the perfect storm that meant it got so out of control so quickly. Done on the cheap it seems to save money.

You have people who have raised fire safety for a number of years being ignored about the concern. Bo jo telling officials to get stuffed at the London assembly when they raise issues of cuts to the fire service.

Post tradegy the governments response has been terrible, Which is why the anger is being directed there. TM didn't have the decency to face the public. The survivors are still sleeping on floors, others that are in similar blocks of flats have no clarity on how safe their homes are. Damian green just said they won'tbe respectively fitting sprinklers to tower blocks.

All this comes just days after being told the age of austerity is over. Essentially telling us all (which a lot knew) that austerity was a political choice not an economic necessity.

No wonder people are so incredibly angry about this they have every right to be.

Austerity is not a political choice.  You've got more chance staying in power if you can spend freely and reduce taxes.  It might have been the wrong economic choice but the notion that the Tories enjoy cutting disability benefit like an evil super villain is simply nonsense.

I couldn't disagree with this more. My main interface with media is FT and The Times and watching Sky News. I watch the BBC Parliament channel more than any other. I really do think the 'dyed in the wool' Tory core vote love the idea of squeezing the poor/less capable.

Fair enough you can go with the evil super villain narrative.  My opinion is that is a fantasy notion created by people who just like to hate the Tories.  My view is that they have just performed poorly in government and there is no malice there.

And that's fine and it's great that you've engaged in politics.

Sorry if this is horribly pretentious, I fear it is and please let me know. It's great if people who have a talent for writing get involved. You're a smart guy and a great writer, all we need is more political discussion.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 05:01:27 PM by kukushkin88 » Logged
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