The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

Krishnan Guru Murthy

"Quite a lot of missing the point on twitter and BBC #Marr. A pro-Brexit campaigner alleged illegal spending by Vote Leave and reported it to Electoral Commission. Then a top Downing St adviser outed him in the course of a rebuttal. That was the story."

[kukushkin88]

"Brexit insider claims Vote Leave team 'may have broken law' "

How can the Observer lead with a piece that says “may”.

I thought heavy weight papers would only lead with stories that were 100% checked out and verifiable?

I think they're reporting the rules were broken. It will be complicated if 'laws' were broken. The irony of someone with right wing politics worrying about newspapers telling us verifiably true things....seems like a wind up, sorry if I got whooshed.

[rfgqqabc]

"Brexit insider claims Vote Leave team 'may have broken law' "

How can the Observer lead with a piece that says “may”.

I thought heavy weight papers would only lead with stories that were 100% checked out and verifiable?

Well the donation is "legal" as in it gets round the spending limits but the question is whether the spending was controlled by the donator's after the fact and this is something which is extremely difficult to prove. Proving who introduced someone is extremely difficult and really that is the type of margin it comes down to. Turns out people lie in these situations, just like the Leave campaign has lied about hiring/not hiring Cambridge Analytica.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r693TPGG0Q

The election laws are extremely complicated as you should know.

""In order to bring a charge, it must be proved that a suspect knew the return was inaccurate and acted dishonestly in signing the declaration. Although there is evidence to suggest the returns may have been inaccurate, there is insufficient evidence to prove to the criminal standard that any candidate or agent was dishonest.""

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/sunny-hundal/cps-doesnt-press-charges-over-tory-over-spending

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Mackinlay#Electoral_spending_criminal_investigation_following_the_2015_General_Election

[TightEnd]

NEW: Documents released by Bindmans law firm (who act for Wylie and Sanni the pro brexit campaigners who allege illegalcampaigning) have a THIRD whistleblower - in other words a new one

Bindman release a 53 page document of Vote Leave emails and other docs

going to get very messy!

[TightEnd]

Does Labour have a new plan to stop Brexit?

The party is seeking to prevent the UK automatically leaving the EU if MPs reject Theresa May’s agreement

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/03/does-labour-have-new-plan-stop-brexit

[TightEnd]

Corbyn Apologises Over Mural | Read His Letter to Jewish Leaders in Full

[TightEnd]

just released, media briefing by bindmans

[PokerBroker]

It seems the media and political opponents of Corbyn both in and outside the Labour Party are deliberately trying to conflate being anti-zionism and anti-semitism.

The folk lining up against Corbyn tells you everything you need to know. 

I don't have a dog in this particular fight as I don't support Labour but the constant campaign to try and undermine him shows just how scared the establishment are of him. 

[TightEnd]

At ten past six on Monday evening, Jeremy Corbyn: The Movie went into full montage. Simultaneously attacked by his own MPs in the Commons, in a meeting room near the Commons, and at a protest opposite the Commons. Quite the day.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-russia-movie-climax-montage-a8275006.html

[TightEnd]

Parliament must give the people the final say on Brexit, says Tony Blair

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/03/tony-blairs-speakers-lecture-parliament-must-give-people-final-say-brexit

[TightEnd]

Brexit official tasked with solving Irish border issue quits

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/26/simon-case-brexit-irish-border-prince-william-private-secretary?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews#link_time=1522084277

[TightEnd]

Why Labour continues to struggle with antisemitism

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/26/why-labour-continues-to-struggle-with-antisemitism?CMP=twt_gu

[Marky147]

Click to see full-size image.

[Doobs]

It seems the media and political opponents of Corbyn both in and outside the Labour Party are deliberately trying to conflate being anti-zionism and anti-semitism.

The folk lining up against Corbyn tells you everything you need to know. 

I don't have a dog in this particular fight as I don't support Labour but the constant campaign to try and undermine him shows just how scared the establishment are of him. 

I think the Jewish banker mural is probably at the low end of anti-semitism.  You could view it as anti-semetic, but that doesn't mean Corbyn was seeing the connotations when he defended it.  He likely just saw a message that supports his view of how bankers treat the poor.

Having said that, he has a long history of taking sides against Jews, and it is a really thin line between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism.  Many of those who are against a country founded by Jews are so for anti-semetic reasons?   You hear very few pronouncements from the left against nations founded by Muslims for instance, and some of them have got some pretty unpleasant histories too?  It is ok to protest against the oppressive treatment of Palestinians by the Isrealis, and I am happy to do so, but that isn't anti-Zionism is it?  

And what does my ambivalence towards Corbyn tell you?  Pretty much nothing I guess, but am all ears.

[Jon MW]

It seems the media and political opponents of Corbyn both in and outside the Labour Party are deliberately trying to conflate being anti-zionism and anti-semitism.

The folk lining up against Corbyn tells you everything you need to know. 

I don't have a dog in this particular fight as I don't support Labour but the constant campaign to try and undermine him shows just how scared the establishment are of him. 

I think the Jewish banker mural is probably at the low end of anti-semitism.  You could view it as anti-semetic, but that doesn't mean Corbyn was seeing the connotations when he defended it.  He likely just saw a message that supports his view of how bankers treat the poor.

Having said that, he has a long history of taking sides against Jews, and it is a really thin line between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism.  Many of those who are against a country founded by Jews are so for anti-semetic reasons?   You hear very few pronouncements from the left against nations founded by Muslims for instance, and some of them have got some pretty unpleasant histories too?  It is ok to protest against the oppressive treatment of Palestinians by the Isrealis, and I am happy to do so, but that isn't anti-Zionism is it?  

And what does my ambivalence towards Corbyn tell you?  Pretty much nothing I guess, but am all ears.

I did have a similar thought when I've seen some commentary. I've no problem with anyone being anti-Israel; but the line between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism is pretty thin these days - apart from an academic exercise what is the practical purpose of being against the foundation of a Jewish state in the century following it's foundation?

The problem with Corbyn not really noticing the anti-Semitic intent behind the mural is just as much of a problem as if he did know - if he knows then he's condoning it; if he doesn't notice it then it's because that kind of stereotype is normal and unremarkable in his world.