The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

Why winning an election in Britain is so hard, in one chart: we’re divided over Brexit, and each side of that divide is divided over austerity. More in new polling at http://LordAshcroftPolls.com

[TightEnd]

 

[4KSuited]

May should agree to having a "border" in the Irish Sea as per the EU's backstop proposal, since there really is no other option; then once a deal is done have a snap election. Based on the latest polls, the Tories should get the majority they need without the need for support from DUP.

Or have I missed something other than a possible broken promise about not having a border in the Irish Sea? And it's a "So what?" about another broken promise. Surely the key thing is that there's no hard border in Ireland, and that the customs border between NI & the rest of the U.K. is just semantics?

[rfgqqabc]

Its obvious. We just leave the WTO.

[Pokerpops]

Daniel Hannan on how we should proceed with our negotiations

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/30/eurocrats-expecting-us-drop-brexit-little-understand-british/

[StuartHopkin]

Are we able to work out which is the better indicator of how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?

Bit worried where this question will lead, but I honestly don't know the answer.....

Can you explain how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?

All of my posts yesterday/this morning in this thread are about it. Don’t worry about where the questions will lead. It will lead to the Office for National Stats, the BBC website, maybe the FT/The Times/Guardian and worst case The New Statesman.

I have read the posts, but are you just saying they are devastated because they have more debt, without knowing why they have more debt?

A big part of austerity is the government not spending money on essential public services. The problems that the funding previously helped to deal with don’t go anywhere though. So what happens? The articles I linked and the studies they cite seem to suggest the very poorest have been borrowing money to survive. The ONS said the poorest 10% of UK households spent 250% of what they earnt in financial year ending in 2017.

I'm still not there. I'm worried I am too far removed.

Can we have an example family?
What public service do they no longer have access to?
Where do they get it now?

Can you google it? It’s all there, if you can’t, I’ll try and help.

Found a few things but this seemed to make the most sense https://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/low-income-families-outgoings-personal-finances-poverty-a8432991.html

So we're talking mainly benefit cuts and transport costs/lack of options?

If the poorest 10% are spending 250% of their income, what are they expecting to happen and where do they get that level of credit?

[kukushkin88]

Are we able to work out which is the better indicator of how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?

Bit worried where this question will lead, but I honestly don't know the answer.....

Can you explain how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?

All of my posts yesterday/this morning in this thread are about it. Don’t worry about where the questions will lead. It will lead to the Office for National Stats, the BBC website, maybe the FT/The Times/Guardian and worst case The New Statesman.

I have read the posts, but are you just saying they are devastated because they have more debt, without knowing why they have more debt?

A big part of austerity is the government not spending money on essential public services. The problems that the funding previously helped to deal with don’t go anywhere though. So what happens? The articles I linked and the studies they cite seem to suggest the very poorest have been borrowing money to survive. The ONS said the poorest 10% of UK households spent 250% of what they earnt in financial year ending in 2017.

I'm still not there. I'm worried I am too far removed.

Can we have an example family?
What public service do they no longer have access to?
Where do they get it now?

Can you google it? It’s all there, if you can’t, I’ll try and help.

Found a few things but this seemed to make the most sense https://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/low-income-families-outgoings-personal-finances-poverty-a8432991.html

So we're talking mainly benefit cuts and transport costs/lack of options?

If the poorest 10% are spending 250% of their income, what are they expecting to happen and where do they get that level of credit?

I think it’s wrong to think mainly in terms of where the money goes, it’s also the fact that they no longer have anything much coming in that’s creating the problem. The article you linked doesn’t seem as comprehensive as the ONS/Guardian article, the two NYT articles or The New Statesman article that I linked at the start of the discussion. Shall I copy them all in to one post?

What do they think will happen? You probably don’t think far ahead if not being able to eat is a daily problem. Where do they get that level of credit? The ONS study and PwC study say payday lenders and credit cards.

[kukushkin88]

https://positivemoney.org/videos/introduction/

This stuff is interesting to me, I’m still trying to get my head around some of it. I’d like to hear people’s thoughts.

[StuartHopkin]

Are we able to work out which is the better indicator of how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?

Bit worried where this question will lead, but I honestly don't know the answer.....

Can you explain how austerity has devastated the poorest in society?

All of my posts yesterday/this morning in this thread are about it. Don’t worry about where the questions will lead. It will lead to the Office for National Stats, the BBC website, maybe the FT/The Times/Guardian and worst case The New Statesman.

I have read the posts, but are you just saying they are devastated because they have more debt, without knowing why they have more debt?

A big part of austerity is the government not spending money on essential public services. The problems that the funding previously helped to deal with don’t go anywhere though. So what happens? The articles I linked and the studies they cite seem to suggest the very poorest have been borrowing money to survive. The ONS said the poorest 10% of UK households spent 250% of what they earnt in financial year ending in 2017.

I'm still not there. I'm worried I am too far removed.

Can we have an example family?
What public service do they no longer have access to?
Where do they get it now?

Can you google it? It’s all there, if you can’t, I’ll try and help.

Found a few things but this seemed to make the most sense https://www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/low-income-families-outgoings-personal-finances-poverty-a8432991.html

So we're talking mainly benefit cuts and transport costs/lack of options?

If the poorest 10% are spending 250% of their income, what are they expecting to happen and where do they get that level of credit?

I think it’s wrong to think mainly in terms of where the money goes, it’s also the fact that they no longer have anything much coming in that’s creating the problem. The article you linked doesn’t seem as comprehensive as the ONS/Guardian article, the two NYT articles or The New Statesman article that I linked at the start of the discussion. Shall I copy them all in to one post?

What do they think will happen? You probably don’t think far ahead if not being able to eat is a daily problem. Where do they get that level of credit? The ONS study and PwC study say payday lenders and credit cards.

I will find the links don't worry.
I'll be back.
Probably tomorrow though. ;-)

[neeko]

https://positivemoney.org/videos/introduction/

This stuff is interesting to me, I’m still trying to get my head around some of it. I’d like to hear people’s thoughts.

What a lot of rubbish.

[kukushkin88]

https://positivemoney.org/videos/introduction/

This stuff is interesting to me, I’m still trying to get my head around some of it. I’d like to hear people’s thoughts.

What a lot of rubbish.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/ann-pettifor/why-i-disagree-with-positive-money-and-martin-wolf

This lady agrees but does a little better explaining why :-). The people running it seem so legit though and it seems they have support from some pretty influential people at the IMF.

https://positivemoney.org/2014/06/disagree-ann-pettifor/

[Pokerpops]

https://positivemoney.org/videos/introduction/

This stuff is interesting to me, I’m still trying to get my head around some of it. I’d like to hear people’s thoughts.

What a lot of rubbish.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/ann-pettifor/why-i-disagree-with-positive-money-and-martin-wolf

This lady agrees but does a little better explaining why :-). The people running it seem so legit though and it seems they have support from some pretty influential people at the IMF.

https://positivemoney.org/2014/06/disagree-ann-pettifor/

It’s all a bit ‘how many angels can sit on a pin head’. An interesting debate about a money supply theory with next to no chance of being effectively delivered.

[DungBeetle]

https://positivemoney.org/videos/introduction/

This stuff is interesting to me, I’m still trying to get my head around some of it. I’d like to hear people’s thoughts.

What a lot of rubbish.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/ann-pettifor/why-i-disagree-with-positive-money-and-martin-wolf

This lady agrees but does a little better explaining why :-). The people running it seem so legit though and it seems they have support from some pretty influential people at the IMF.

https://positivemoney.org/2014/06/disagree-ann-pettifor/

I think this is similar to modern monetary theory.  The theory that currency is created by government therefore all spending comes before tax rather than the other way round.  And therefore if we have excess capacity we can spend whatever we like without it being inflationary.  It always comes across to me as a bit of a cult and a comfort blanket for those who do not wish to curtail government spending.  The problem I have with it is whenever anyone raises situations where excessive government spending has created inflation it is always something else’s fault.  For example Venezuala’s inflation is blamed on being linked to the dollar rather than government money printing:  the argument always seems to be “MMT simply wasn’t done correctly.

[TightEnd]

Philip Hammond: UK will enforce hard border in Ireland if there is no Brexit deal.
Dramatically ups the stakes. Strips away idea the UK will simply refuse to enforce border after Brexit, leaving decision to the Republic

https://www.politico.eu/article/philip-hammond-brexit-ireland-uk-will-enforce-hard-border-in-ireland-if-there-is-no-brexit-deal/

[TightEnd]

Good piece on the state play in Brexit with some intriguing details about how May has privately impressed Merkel

wall st journal

https://www.wsj.com/articles/theresa-may-facing-hard-deadline-struggles-to-navigate-treacherous-brexit-politics-1538330894