The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

This is the great fact that Remain failed to build their campaign around and Leave lied about.

The average adult migrant from the European Economic Area yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury in 2017 than the average British-born adult did. Reducing immigration will hurt now, and in the future

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/09/26/migrants-contribute-more-to-britain-than-they-take-and-will-carry-on-doing-so

[MANTIS01]

This is the great fact that Remain failed to build their campaign around and Leave lied about.

The average adult migrant from the European Economic Area yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury in 2017 than the average British-born adult did. Reducing immigration will hurt now, and in the future

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/09/26/migrants-contribute-more-to-britain-than-they-take-and-will-carry-on-doing-so

"Yah these citizens generated more revenue as a group than those citizens so they have more value in our eyes"

Would be a weird line for the lefties to trot out methinks

In all seriousness I think the above fact is only relevant to the voting public if they see genuine improvements in their social infrastructure. Anything else is balderdash. 

[nirvana]

This is the great fact that Remain failed to build their campaign around and Leave lied about.

The average adult migrant from the European Economic Area yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury in 2017 than the average British-born adult did. Reducing immigration will hurt now, and in the future

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/09/26/migrants-contribute-more-to-britain-than-they-take-and-will-carry-on-doing-so

Unrelated but it's reasonable to ask where all that extra wealth created has gone. Labour for 6 or 7 years and the Tories lib Dems for 8 years have been pretty happy to see it shore up marginal businesses and disappear into the hands of the few ( to coin a phrase). Also reasonable to challenge whether the increased GDP is of any value to society as a whole.

I don't feel that leave lied about this or if they did it didn't resonate with me

[doubleup]

@mantis @ nirvana

You guys know what "yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury " means?

[DungBeetle]

@mantis @ nirvana

You guys know what "yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury " means?

Not sure as I can’t access article.  Is it simply tax paid minus any benefits received or have they shared our per capita health/education/infrastructure contribution as part of calculation?  Is it a comparative to a Brit or a stand alone net contribution?

[kukushkin88]

This is the great fact that Remain failed to build their campaign around and Leave lied about.

The average adult migrant from the European Economic Area yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury in 2017 than the average British-born adult did. Reducing immigration will hurt now, and in the future

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/09/26/migrants-contribute-more-to-britain-than-they-take-and-will-carry-on-doing-so

"Yah these citizens generated more revenue as a group than those citizens so they have more value in our eyes"

Would be a weird line for the lefties to trot out methinks

In all seriousness I think the above fact is only relevant to the voting public if they see genuine improvements in their social infrastructure. Anything else is balderdash. 

Last paragraph :-). From a champion of austerity and self declared hater of all things ‘public sector’.

[doubleup]

@mantis @ nirvana

You guys know what "yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury " means?

Not sure as I can’t access article.  Is it simply tax paid minus any benefits received or have they shared our per capita health/education/infrastructure contribution as part of calculation?  Is it a comparative to a Brit or a stand alone net contribution?

They pay their taxes, they generate money for pensions and the nhs.  They bring an end to government cuts.  nirvana waffling on about the wrong kind of gdp, mantis waffling on about the wrong kind of government spending.

[TightEnd]

Donald Tusk
‏
Verified account
 
@eucopresident

From the very beginning, the EU offer has been a Canada+++ deal. Much further-reaching on trade, internal security and foreign policy cooperation. This is a true measure of respect. And this offer remains in place. #brexit


which is disingenuous. Tusk means Canada-style deal on condition N Ireland carved out into CU & single market which May cannot do because of the DUP on whom her government depends

that early election, terrible campaign and loss of majority has far reaching consequences including the probability of hard brexit/no deal/recession

[DungBeetle]

@mantis @ nirvana

You guys know what "yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury " means?

Not sure as I can’t access article.  Is it simply tax paid minus any benefits received or have they shared our per capita health/education/infrastructure contribution as part of calculation?  Is it a comparative to a Brit or a stand alone net contribution?

They pay their taxes, they generate money for pensions and the nhs.  They bring an end to government cuts.  nirvana waffling on about the wrong kind of gdp, mantis waffling on about the wrong kind of government spending.

You haven’t answered the question.  I don’t know what the calculation method is.  If it is simply tax paid minus benefit received then it isn’t the best measure as you need to take into account infrastructure considerations. Maybe the figure does do this but I can’t see the article.

[Tal]

Donald Tusk
‏
Verified account
 
@eucopresident

From the very beginning, the EU offer has been a Canada+++ deal. Much further-reaching on trade, internal security and foreign policy cooperation. This is a true measure of respect. And this offer remains in place. #brexit


which is disingenuous. Tusk means Canada-style deal on condition N Ireland carved out into CU & single market which May cannot do because of the DUP on whom her government depends

that early election, terrible campaign and loss of majority has far reaching consequences including the probability of hard brexit/no deal/recession

Tighty whistling the chorus?

[nirvana]

@mantis @ nirvana

You guys know what "yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury " means?

Not sure as I can’t access article.  Is it simply tax paid minus any benefits received or have they shared our per capita health/education/infrastructure contribution as part of calculation?  Is it a comparative to a Brit or a stand alone net contribution?

They pay their taxes, they generate money for pensions and the nhs.  They bring an end to government cuts.  nirvana waffling on about the wrong kind of gdp, mantis waffling on about the wrong kind of government spending.

Haha, i did preface with unrelated - still, it was waffling i'll give you that.

More directly then, how has the marginal extra treasury take from a migrant over a lazy Brit benefited the lazy Brit

I haven't read the article but very likely to be a spurious comparison as,I'd imagine, 99% of migrants come here to work and a very large number will pay tax accordingly. It may also be inflated by only capturing the people who pay tax and not accounting for dodgers who consume some services.

The Brit take per head will be depressed by our unhealthy and near dead who don't pay much tax

[kukushkin88]

@mantis @ nirvana

You guys know what "yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury " means?

Not sure as I can’t access article.  Is it simply tax paid minus any benefits received or have they shared our per capita health/education/infrastructure contribution as part of calculation?  Is it a comparative to a Brit or a stand alone net contribution?

They pay their taxes, they generate money for pensions and the nhs.  They bring an end to government cuts.  nirvana waffling on about the wrong kind of gdp, mantis waffling on about the wrong kind of government spending.

Haha, i did preface with unrelated - still, it was waffling i'll give you that.

More directly then, how has the marginal extra treasury take from a migrant over a lazy Brit benefited the lazy Brit

I haven't read the article but very likely to be a spurious comparison as,I'd imagine, 99% of migrants come here to work and a very large number will pay tax accordingly. It may also be inflated by only capturing the people who pay tax and not accounting for dodgers who consume some services.

The Brit take per head will be depressed by our unhealthy and near dead who don't pay much tax

It’s worth reading the article.

[nirvana]

@mantis @ nirvana

You guys know what "yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury " means?

Not sure as I can’t access article.  Is it simply tax paid minus any benefits received or have they shared our per capita health/education/infrastructure contribution as part of calculation?  Is it a comparative to a Brit or a stand alone net contribution?

They pay their taxes, they generate money for pensions and the nhs.  They bring an end to government cuts.  nirvana waffling on about the wrong kind of gdp, mantis waffling on about the wrong kind of government spending.

Haha, i did preface with unrelated - still, it was waffling i'll give you that.

More directly then, how has the marginal extra treasury take from a migrant over a lazy Brit benefited the lazy Brit

I haven't read the article but very likely to be a spurious comparison as,I'd imagine, 99% of migrants come here to work and a very large number will pay tax accordingly. It may also be inflated by only capturing the people who pay tax and not accounting for dodgers who consume some services.

The Brit take per head will be depressed by our unhealthy and near dead who don't pay much tax

It’s worth reading the article.

And let facts get in the way of my narrative- come on !

Have to subscribe to read it so thats a non starter on this occasion

[DungBeetle]

https://positivemoney.org/videos/introduction/

This stuff is interesting to me, I’m still trying to get my head around some of it. I’d like to hear people’s thoughts.

It's a shame Kuku's post didn't stimulate more debate.  The MMT angle is quite interesting.  Misguiding in my view but it is certainly gaining traction.

[kukushkin88]

@mantis @ nirvana

You guys know what "yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury " means?

Not sure as I can’t access article.  Is it simply tax paid minus any benefits received or have they shared our per capita health/education/infrastructure contribution as part of calculation?  Is it a comparative to a Brit or a stand alone net contribution?

They pay their taxes, they generate money for pensions and the nhs.  They bring an end to government cuts.  nirvana waffling on about the wrong kind of gdp, mantis waffling on about the wrong kind of government spending.

Haha, i did preface with unrelated - still, it was waffling i'll give you that.

More directly then, how has the marginal extra treasury take from a migrant over a lazy Brit benefited the lazy Brit

I haven't read the article but very likely to be a spurious comparison as,I'd imagine, 99% of migrants come here to work and a very large number will pay tax accordingly. It may also be inflated by only capturing the people who pay tax and not accounting for dodgers who consume some services.

The Brit take per head will be depressed by our unhealthy and near dead who don't pay much tax

It’s worth reading the article.

And let facts get in the way of my narrative- come on !

Have to subscribe to read it so thats a non starter on this occasion

It says that your assumptions are good but that wasn’t the crux......the ‘unhealthy and near dead’ are even worse at making children than they are at making money, it’s a big problem.