The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[kukushkin88]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

The booze ban in the run up to the 10k is not going well, apologies to DungB, I’ll still dip under 38 mins though, so I’m OK with it. The problem with controlling immigration is that it directly hurts our economy. If the Conservative Party have limited migration it’s only by making (Great) Britain a shit place to live.   Hilarious to use being French as an insult, it’s the greatest country in the world imo (USA /2nd)

This argument is not really sustainable.

The US and Australian economies, not to mention many of the Asian economies are not damaged by controlling immigration.

In any case, there will literally be no change to immigration numbers directly as a result of changes to immigration policy post Brexit. To the disappointment, I'm sure, of many Brexit voters, the market and the economy will determine what numbers of people still come to settle in the UK. The only way that numbers will reduce is if Brexit does cause cataclysmic damage to the economy and jobs.

Good shout, it’s a subject where meaningful data is hard to come by. I’m not really sure how we judge Aus/US though. What are we comparing against? Or are we just saying they tightened the rules and things went OK?

I'd say both countries have always had fairly tight rules - not easy for a Brit to settle in either of these countries

If you’re right, I don’t see how we say if it’s positive or not. My best mate moved to the Sydney suburbs with his gf, he came home after 6 months convinced that the locals hated foreigners. The discussion about immigration is hypothetical, don’t tell the ‘flat earthers’ though, it’s all they’ve got.

Remind me what the Brexit positive’s are, I’ve forgotten.

[kukushkin88]

I see Teddy reading. He’s a smart guy. Maybe some Brexit positive’s from him? Big caveat though, being led out of the EU by T Benn and being led out of the EU by T May are not the same thing.

[MANTIS01]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

lamenting financials and choice on the shelves is real life. consequences.

Untangling us in a globalised society with just in time manufacturing from a free trade area comes with vast consequences.

As does controlling immigration of useful contributors to society, and for example the NHS is going to feel it badly. From personal experience i can tell you it is already feeling it badly.

Already there are limits to immigration. No one was proposing unfettered immigration, there isn't that now.

How long are we going to lament those consequences for? Is it going to be forevermore? Even if it's simply the ability to decide immigration law it's enough for the majority of the country.

So anyway, I have very clear sight of the consequences now and am strategizing to deliver solutions, to make the most of whatever opportunity there is. Personally feels more productive than gasping at the predictions. But I do have confidence that we as a country can rise to this challenge and deliver success but I am also well aware of the difficulties that await. Less choice on the shelves and less dollar in the pocket are indeed the real life consequences that we voted for. I accept and own it.

What I don't accept is the French PM getting in our face with his attitude. In all honesty he is the one who should fuck off. In fact throughout this process the whole attitude of EU leaders has turned me right off. Their hostile approach, jokes on Twitter, constant jabs and wanting to teach us a lesson. I mean there are a lot of people who should be fucking off here and it's not Brits who express concern about the whole debacle. It's real tough to entertain positive thoughts about a group of people who absolutely hate you. These guys want to see us fail. So you see now it's a matter of principle and as such the reported consequences matter much less to folk. 

As for the NHS recruitment issues, here we have one of the best organisations in the world, great country to live in, dedicated and talented colleagues, get to make a difference, save lives. What a great job! Seems like if there was an effective recruitment policy in place this issue would be resolved. Just throwing money at ineffectiveness is only compounding the problem.

[kukushkin88]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

lamenting financials and choice on the shelves is real life. consequences.

Untangling us in a globalised society with just in time manufacturing from a free trade area comes with vast consequences.

As does controlling immigration of useful contributors to society, and for example the NHS is going to feel it badly. From personal experience i can tell you it is already feeling it badly.

Already there are limits to immigration. No one was proposing unfettered immigration, there isn't that now.

How long are we going to lament those consequences for? Is it going to be forevermore? Even if it's simply the ability to decide immigration law it's enough for the majority of the country.

So anyway, I have very clear sight of the consequences now and am strategizing to deliver solutions, to make the most of whatever opportunity there is. Personally feels more productive than gasping at the predictions. But I do have confidence that we as a country can rise to this challenge and deliver success but I am also well aware of the difficulties that await. Less choice on the shelves and less dollar in the pocket are indeed the real life consequences that we voted for. I accept and own it.

What I don't accept is the French PM getting in our face with his attitude. In all honesty he is the one who should fuck off. In fact throughout this process the whole attitude of EU leaders has turned me right off. Their hostile approach, jokes on Twitter, constant jabs and wanting to teach us a lesson. I mean there are a lot of people who should be fucking off here and it's not Brits who express concern about the whole debacle. It's real tough to entertain positive thoughts about a group of people who absolutely hate you. These guys want to see us fail. So you see now it's a matter of principle and as such the reported consequences matter much less to folk. 

As for the NHS recruitment issues, here we have one of the best organisations in the world, great country to live in, dedicated and talented colleagues, get to make a difference, save lives. What a great job! Seems like if there was an effective recruitment policy in place this issue would be resolved. Just throwing money at ineffectiveness is only compounding the problem.

Paragraph 3: They’re just protecting the Union, the Little Englander numptie’s getting arrogantly dismissed and schooled in how the world works is mostly in your imagination, it’s still entertaining though:-)

[RED-DOG]

[nirvana]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

The booze ban in the run up to the 10k is not going well, apologies to DungB, I’ll still dip under 38 mins though, so I’m OK with it. The problem with controlling immigration is that it directly hurts our economy. If the Conservative Party have limited migration it’s only by making (Great) Britain a shit place to live.   Hilarious to use being French as an insult, it’s the greatest country in the world imo (USA /2nd)

This argument is not really sustainable.

The US and Australian economies, not to mention many of the Asian economies are not damaged by controlling immigration.

In any case, there will literally be no change to immigration numbers directly as a result of changes to immigration policy post Brexit. To the disappointment, I'm sure, of many Brexit voters, the market and the economy will determine what numbers of people still come to settle in the UK. The only way that numbers will reduce is if Brexit does cause cataclysmic damage to the economy and jobs.

Good shout, it’s a subject where meaningful data is hard to come by. I’m not really sure how we judge Aus/US though. What are we comparing against? Or are we just saying they tightened the rules and things went OK?

I'd say both countries have always had fairly tight rules - not easy for a Brit to settle in either of these countries

If you’re right, I don’t see how we say if it’s positive or not. My best mate moved to the Sydney suburbs with his gf, he came home after 6 months convinced that the locals hated foreigners. The discussion about immigration is hypothetical, don’t tell the ‘flat earthers’ though, it’s all they’ve got.

Remind me what the Brexit positive’s are, I’ve forgotten.

Well, while we're on immigration - one positive is there will be an equivalence between an Asian healthcare specialist and a EU27 healthcare specialist wanting to come and help us/themselves

I'm a gammon obv, but I'm married to an Austrian and have a fair chunk of Asian heritage on my Grandmothers line - so this seems a pretty good outcome to me.

I feel a strong fraternal bond with people whose heritage is from areas that form part of our colonial past - south Asians in particular and I'll be glad to see them having an equality of opportunity with someone from the EU27.

Whilst I was somewhat indifferent to whether we stayed or left (for example, if there had never been a referendum I would have been fine with that) I would still vote leave if asked again, even if I couldn't enumerate specific benefits

Since you asked though :-) here's a few from my perspective

The UK being integrated into a European Army will be off the table

Human trafficking into this country will be made more difficult

We can set tariffs as we choose rather than mimic EU tarriffs which increases prices for certain types of goods from the ROW

Average wages are likely to increase

House prices might reduce

[doubleup]

The US and Australian economies, not to mention many of the Asian economies are not damaged by controlling immigration.

How do you think the wealthiest US states would get on if they weren't allowed to take "migrants" from other states?

and ^ a lot of "citation required"

[nirvana]

The US and Australian economies, not to mention many of the Asian economies are not damaged by controlling immigration.

How do you think the wealthiest US states would get on if they weren't allowed to take "migrants" from other states?

Not sure if you're clutching straws or strawmanning me - either way, let there be straw

[kukushkin88]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

The booze ban in the run up to the 10k is not going well, apologies to DungB, I’ll still dip under 38 mins though, so I’m OK with it. The problem with controlling immigration is that it directly hurts our economy. If the Conservative Party have limited migration it’s only by making (Great) Britain a shit place to live.   Hilarious to use being French as an insult, it’s the greatest country in the world imo (USA /2nd)

This argument is not really sustainable.

The US and Australian economies, not to mention many of the Asian economies are not damaged by controlling immigration.

In any case, there will literally be no change to immigration numbers directly as a result of changes to immigration policy post Brexit. To the disappointment, I'm sure, of many Brexit voters, the market and the economy will determine what numbers of people still come to settle in the UK. The only way that numbers will reduce is if Brexit does cause cataclysmic damage to the economy and jobs.

Good shout, it’s a subject where meaningful data is hard to come by. I’m not really sure how we judge Aus/US though. What are we comparing against? Or are we just saying they tightened the rules and things went OK?

I'd say both countries have always had fairly tight rules - not easy for a Brit to settle in either of these countries

If you’re right, I don’t see how we say if it’s positive or not. My best mate moved to the Sydney suburbs with his gf, he came home after 6 months convinced that the locals hated foreigners. The discussion about immigration is hypothetical, don’t tell the ‘flat earthers’ though, it’s all they’ve got.

Remind me what the Brexit positive’s are, I’ve forgotten.

Well, while we're on immigration - one positive is there will be an equivalence between an Asian healthcare specialist and a EU27 healthcare specialist wanting to come and help us/themselves

I'm a gammon obv, but I'm married to an Austrian and have a fair chunk of Asian heritage on my Grandmothers line - so this seems a pretty good outcome to me.

I feel a strong fraternal bond with people whose heritage is from areas that form part of our colonial past - south Asians in particular and I'll be glad to see them having an equality of opportunity with someone from the EU27.

Whilst I was somewhat indifferent to whether we stayed or left (for example, if there had never been a referendum I would have been fine with that) I would still vote leave if asked again, even if I couldn't enumerate specific benefits

Since you asked though :-) here's a few from my perspective

The UK being integrated into a European Army will be off the table

Human trafficking into this country will be made more difficult

We can set tariffs as we choose rather than mimic EU tarriffs which increases prices for certain types of goods from the ROW

Average wages are likely to increase

House prices might reduce

I’m not having that you’re a Gammon, Alex assured me you were a good guy (very long time ago now) and everything you post supports that idea, even if I do struggle to understand your perspective on Brexit. Wages, I can’t see how, house prices, hopefully but surely it would involve a collapse of the current economy?

[nirvana]

The majority of the country want controlled immigration

Freedom of movement is a red line for EU

So without EU reform Leaving was inevitable. There is no Remain.

Remain lamenting financials and choice on the shelves has only served to harden the EU stance and undermine us

Very boring, very unproductive, very French

The booze ban in the run up to the 10k is not going well, apologies to DungB, I’ll still dip under 38 mins though, so I’m OK with it. The problem with controlling immigration is that it directly hurts our economy. If the Conservative Party have limited migration it’s only by making (Great) Britain a shit place to live.   Hilarious to use being French as an insult, it’s the greatest country in the world imo (USA /2nd)

This argument is not really sustainable.

The US and Australian economies, not to mention many of the Asian economies are not damaged by controlling immigration.

In any case, there will literally be no change to immigration numbers directly as a result of changes to immigration policy post Brexit. To the disappointment, I'm sure, of many Brexit voters, the market and the economy will determine what numbers of people still come to settle in the UK. The only way that numbers will reduce is if Brexit does cause cataclysmic damage to the economy and jobs.

Good shout, it’s a subject where meaningful data is hard to come by. I’m not really sure how we judge Aus/US though. What are we comparing against? Or are we just saying they tightened the rules and things went OK?

I'd say both countries have always had fairly tight rules - not easy for a Brit to settle in either of these countries

If you’re right, I don’t see how we say if it’s positive or not. My best mate moved to the Sydney suburbs with his gf, he came home after 6 months convinced that the locals hated foreigners. The discussion about immigration is hypothetical, don’t tell the ‘flat earthers’ though, it’s all they’ve got.

Remind me what the Brexit positive’s are, I’ve forgotten.

Well, while we're on immigration - one positive is there will be an equivalence between an Asian healthcare specialist and a EU27 healthcare specialist wanting to come and help us/themselves

I'm a gammon obv, but I'm married to an Austrian and have a fair chunk of Asian heritage on my Grandmothers line - so this seems a pretty good outcome to me.

I feel a strong fraternal bond with people whose heritage is from areas that form part of our colonial past - south Asians in particular and I'll be glad to see them having an equality of opportunity with someone from the EU27.

Whilst I was somewhat indifferent to whether we stayed or left (for example, if there had never been a referendum I would have been fine with that) I would still vote leave if asked again, even if I couldn't enumerate specific benefits

Since you asked though :-) here's a few from my perspective

The UK being integrated into a European Army will be off the table

Human trafficking into this country will be made more difficult

We can set tariffs as we choose rather than mimic EU tarriffs which increases prices for certain types of goods from the ROW

Average wages are likely to increase

House prices might reduce

I’m not having that you’re a Gammon, Alex assured me you were a good guy (very long time ago now) and everything you post supports that idea, even if I do struggle to understand your perspective on Brexit. Wages, I can’t see how, house prices, hopefully but surely it would involve a collapse of the current economy?

Haha, people change

[teddybloat]

kukushkin88, one benefit from a socialist perspective is that upon leaving the eu you would be allowed to nationalise industries. membership of the eu prohibits eg nationalising the rail service.

i'm opposed to the eu on democratic terms. and suffering short to medium term pain of varying degrees is a price worth paying for me. i wasn't lied to. i was fully aware that a vote for leave was a vote for some economic pain for some period of time.

one effect of the debates for me was in immigration and i am much more in favour of stricter and more controlled immigration and leave achieves that aim. i am not as persuaded by that argument, but a lot of people were very pursuaded. and immigration numbers have fallen since the leave vote.

[doubleup]

kukushkin88, one benefit from a socialist perspective is that upon leaving the eu you would be allowed to nationalise industries. membership of the eu prohibits eg nationalising the rail service.

I don't think that is correct

[kukushkin88]

kukushkin88, one benefit from a socialist perspective is that upon leaving the eu you would be allowed to nationalise industries. membership of the eu prohibits eg nationalising the rail service.

I don't think that is correct

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sam-fowles/nationalisation-is-not-ag_b_8231336.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer_us=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvLnVrLw&guce_referrer_cs=2FJ2LG_0JLhZ7qX_I2coEQ

This seems to have it covered. Thanks for posting Teddy, more for me to think about. I’m convinced migration is falling because Britain is a much less desirable place to be (most of my buddies these days are French or Spanish, they agree) it’s one of those where I’m very open to the idea that I’m wrong though. We are still a pretty awesome country after all.

[MANTIS01]

Unilever scrap plans to move to Rotterdam, shareholders prefer sticking with London and ftse 100 inclusion

[kukushkin88]

Unilever scrap plans to move to Rotterdam, shareholders prefer sticking with London and ftse 100 inclusion

It might be against the (crazy) law.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/shareholderinterest.asp