The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[TightEnd]

Finkelstein

thetimes.co.uk/article/5e79ed40-d157-11e8-b8d4-d6fb90acb7b1

[TightEnd]

FT: Barnier offers the UK a one year extension to the transition — but only if the UK accepts the “two-tier” backstop i.e what Theresa May has already rejected and described as unacceptable.

https://www.ft.com/content/6582b8ce-d175-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5

[TightEnd]

Puzzled by all the Brexit options floating around? Here's a summary of where we stand

a neutral presentation of the options

not confused yet? try this

[TightEnd]

"I fear Britain will have a lot of hurt pride and like a wounded animal will lash out before it dies."

Fair to say EU officials aren't exactly brimming over with optimism this morning.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-brussels-eu-council-summit-no-deal-brexit-more-likely-than-ever-before-2018-10

[TightEnd]

British Hoarders Stock Up on Supplies, Preparing for Brexit

the country’s band of “Brexit preppers,” people who fear chaos in March, when Britain will leave the European Union, and who are stockpiling supplies.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/16/world/europe/brexit-preppers-united-kingdom.html

[tikay]

Eight Cabinet ministers meet for 'pizza plot' to block Theresa May's Brexit strategy

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/99100/eight-cabinet-ministers-meet-pizza-plot

my thought: waiting for the first domino(s) to fall

Nicely done.

[TightEnd]

i expect this will go down like a cup of cold something with the leavers on here but anyway

here goes

"Blair, Clegg, Heseltine cross-party appeal in 7 European papers: “Even at this late hour, many of us are continuing to make case that the British public need to make the final decision... we ask our European partners to be ready to give us space and time"

https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article182221122/Brexit-Blair-Clegg-and-Heseltine-We-need-another-EU-Referendum.html

[Marky147]

Tighty wins every spot on the 2018 Advent Calendar.

The GOAT GOAT!

[nirvana]

This is the great fact that Remain failed to build their campaign around and Leave lied about.

The average adult migrant from the European Economic Area yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury in 2017 than the average British-born adult did. Reducing immigration will hurt now, and in the future

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/09/26/migrants-contribute-more-to-britain-than-they-take-and-will-carry-on-doing-so

Good morning all,

Just re-quoting this for Adz (and Apez I guess) You might “doubt what they put in covers what they take out”. It looks as though using the number of foreign languages you hear in the hospital waiting room isn’t a reliable way to measure whether immigrants are net contributors to the exchequer though.

Ok. If you havent digested previously what I have said about immigration, ie if you bring a skill and are willing to integrate and learn and speak our language, then yes you are spot on.

But most of these people I see, have brought relatives who translate,a nd we got back to the post earlier about the man who has brought his wife over with no intention of integrating, therefore getting a job, therefore probably taking out more than putting in.

Those are the immigrants the majority of Brexiteers want curbed.

TBF. If that is genuinely the concerns of Brexit voters then Brexit is the wrong vehicle. Also. Have to say, your views are pretty diametrically opposed to mine and I voted leave. I understand he sentiments of course but they are essentially racist by any definition ..you really shouldn't be in the business of setting tests for how individuals or groups of people choose to live their lives..as long as they're law abiding etc blah

[arbboy]

Every time i am in hospital i always think its full of English speaking (British) people who don't bring a skill to this country and are happy to live off the state and take out way more than they put in. The reality is the vast majority of this country's population takes out way more than it puts in over their lifetime but because they were born in England it's fine for them to do this whilst telling people's family who come from abroad it is a disgrace to do the same thing even if their families bread winner is a decent grafter unlike millions of British people.  Sure the stats boys here like kuk and doobs and double up will know the figures but i think the average family have to earn way in excess of £50k a year to be net payers to the system.  So the vast majority of people who love to moan about people never paying in don't actually cover their own take outs themselves.

I would much prefer to get rid of the underclass bottom 10% of Britain out of the country (and stop them breeding more scum) who really do think the British government owes them a living/lifestyle than the millions of generally hard working immigrants.  I think i know who are the biggest strain on the system.  Wetherspoons/high st bookies would probably go out of business as a result but i am sure we could cope.

Hard working people from aboard (generally but not 100% are young single fit people ambitious and hungry to get on and don't put a big strain on resources) come to this country and work hard and never hardly take a penny.  I have worked abroad several times and hardly taken a penny out of the local system but paid plenty in.  Most don't stay long term in their old age and drain the nhs of money/pensions from the system.  They come from 20-40 years old and usually go back home after earning their cash and paying their dues via the tax system.  As the stats have proven and numerous here have stated this is fact not fantasy.

[nirvana]

Every time i am in hospital i always think its full of English speaking (British) people who don't bring a skill to this country and are happy to live off the state and take out way more than they put in. The reality is the vast majority of this country's population takes out way more than it puts in over their lifetime but because they were born in England it's fine for them to do this whilst telling people's family who come from abroad it is a disgrace to do the same thing even if their families bread winner is a decent grafter unlike millions of British people.  Sure the stats boys here like kuk and doobs and double up will know the figures but i think the average family have to earn way in excess of £50k a year to be net payers to the system.  So the vast majority of people who love to moan about people never paying in don't actually cover their own take outs themselves.

I would much prefer to get rid of the underclass bottom 10% of Britain out of the country (and stop them breeding more scum) who really do think the British government owes them a living/lifestyle than the millions of generally hard working immigrants.  I think i know who are the biggest strain on the system.  Wetherspoons/high st bookies would probably go out of business as a result but i am sure we could cope.

Hard working people (generally but not 100% are young single fit people ambitious and hungry to get on and don't put a big strain on resources) from aboard come to this country and work hard and never hardly take a penny.  I have worked abroad several times and hardly taken a penny out of the local system but paid plenty in.  Most don't stay long term in the old age and drain the nhs of money/pensions from the system.  They come from 20-40 years old and usually go back home after earning their cash and paying their dues via the tax system.  As the stats have proven and numerous here have stated this is fact not fantasy.

Oh man. We would so lose our identity if we lost the indigenous underclass. First and third paras pretty spot on.

[arbboy]

Every time i am in hospital i always think its full of English speaking (British) people who don't bring a skill to this country and are happy to live off the state and take out way more than they put in. The reality is the vast majority of this country's population takes out way more than it puts in over their lifetime but because they were born in England it's fine for them to do this whilst telling people's family who come from abroad it is a disgrace to do the same thing even if their families bread winner is a decent grafter unlike millions of British people.  Sure the stats boys here like kuk and doobs and double up will know the figures but i think the average family have to earn way in excess of £50k a year to be net payers to the system.  So the vast majority of people who love to moan about people never paying in don't actually cover their own take outs themselves.

I would much prefer to get rid of the underclass bottom 10% of Britain out of the country (and stop them breeding more scum) who really do think the British government owes them a living/lifestyle than the millions of generally hard working immigrants.  I think i know who are the biggest strain on the system.  Wetherspoons/high st bookies would probably go out of business as a result but i am sure we could cope.

Hard working people (generally but not 100% are young single fit people ambitious and hungry to get on and don't put a big strain on resources) from aboard come to this country and work hard and never hardly take a penny.  I have worked abroad several times and hardly taken a penny out of the local system but paid plenty in.  Most don't stay long term in the old age and drain the nhs of money/pensions from the system.  They come from 20-40 years old and usually go back home after earning their cash and paying their dues via the tax system.  As the stats have proven and numerous here have stated this is fact not fantasy.

Oh man. We would so lose our identity if we lost the indigenous underclass

More worried about losing my cheap pint at spoons and the betting shops!

[DungBeetle]

This is the great fact that Remain failed to build their campaign around and Leave lied about.

The average adult migrant from the European Economic Area yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury in 2017 than the average British-born adult did. Reducing immigration will hurt now, and in the future

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/09/26/migrants-contribute-more-to-britain-than-they-take-and-will-carry-on-doing-so

Good morning all,

Just re-quoting this for Adz (and Apez I guess) You might “doubt what they put in covers what they take out”. It looks as though using the number of foreign languages you hear in the hospital waiting room isn’t a reliable way to measure whether immigrants are net contributors to the exchequer though.

Whether they are net contributors to the Exchequer is incomplete information. If I introduce 10 million new members to the population tomorrow and they net contribute €100 per head to the exchequer do you really think that would be good for the NHS?  For all I know the article you linked measures net contribution plus cost of services consumed in which case it’s a fair argument (assuming assumptions are sound) but it’s behind a paywall and nobody answered last time.  What is certain is that just saying “immigrants are net contributors to the exchequer” is irrelevant in isolation.

[Woodsey]

This is the great fact that Remain failed to build their campaign around and Leave lied about.

The average adult migrant from the European Economic Area yielded £2,370 more for the Treasury in 2017 than the average British-born adult did. Reducing immigration will hurt now, and in the future

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/09/26/migrants-contribute-more-to-britain-than-they-take-and-will-carry-on-doing-so

Good morning all,

Just re-quoting this for Adz (and Apez I guess) You might “doubt what they put in covers what they take out”. It looks as though using the number of foreign languages you hear in the hospital waiting room isn’t a reliable way to measure whether immigrants are net contributors to the exchequer though.

Whether they are net contributors to the Exchequer is incomplete information. If I introduce 10 million new members to the population tomorrow and they net contribute €100 per head to the exchequer do you really think that would be good for the NHS?  For all I know the article you linked measures net contribution plus cost of services consumed in which case it’s a fair argument (assuming assumptions are sound) but it’s behind a paywall and nobody answered last time.  What is certain is that just saying “immigrants are net contributors to the exchequer” is irrelevant in isolation.

Bin some of the ones that contribute little or nothing and they are a much more attractive proposition overall, then force some of the Uk wasters that Arb refers to into jobs to ease some of the burden on that side of the fence, win/win!

[DungBeetle]

Every time i am in hospital i always think its full of English speaking (British) people who don't bring a skill to this country and are happy to live off the state and take out way more than they put in. The reality is the vast majority of this country's population takes out way more than it puts in over their lifetime but because they were born in England it's fine for them to do this whilst telling people's family who come from abroad it is a disgrace to do the same thing even if their families bread winner is a decent grafter unlike millions of British people.  Sure the stats boys here like kuk and doobs and double up will know the figures but i think the average family have to earn way in excess of £50k a year to be net payers to the system.  So the vast majority of people who love to moan about people never paying in don't actually cover their own take outs themselves.

I would much prefer to get rid of the underclass bottom 10% of Britain out of the country (and stop them breeding more scum) who really do think the British government owes them a living/lifestyle than the millions of generally hard working immigrants.  I think i know who are the biggest strain on the system.  Wetherspoons/high st bookies would probably go out of business as a result but i am sure we could cope.

Hard working people from aboard (generally but not 100% are young single fit people ambitious and hungry to get on and don't put a big strain on resources) come to this country and work hard and never hardly take a penny.  I have worked abroad several times and hardly taken a penny out of the local system but paid plenty in.  Most don't stay long term in their old age and drain the nhs of money/pensions from the system.  They come from 20-40 years old and usually go back home after earning their cash and paying their dues via the tax system.  As the stats have proven and numerous here have stated this is fact not fantasy.

Well yes.  But isn’t it my duty as a heavy taxpayer to look after these people as they are an existing part of society?   Obviously it would be nice if the left said thank you once in a while rather than telling me I need to put in even more.