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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 56

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 1327940 times)
nirvana
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« Reply #20880 on: September 17, 2019, 12:14:40 PM »

Didn't the Lib Dem surge just happen because people faced the reality of voting for a party with an ambiguous Brexit position, and not because Vince Cable was better than Jo Swinson.   Since she has taken over their support has remained at the level it was when she took over.

I don't realloy see why a 2nd referendum is so great, have people not learned anything from having one before?  And I don't see how a 1-1 score really helps.  I also don't think that there isn't much wrong in having a manifesto with a simple Brexit policy.   

Agree its legit fair etc to take this position into a GE and seek a mandate for it. Be interesting to see if it turns out to be a vote winner or loser
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nirvana
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« Reply #20881 on: September 17, 2019, 12:15:33 PM »

Pretty interesting article here which tries to explain why the polls are all over the place at the moment.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/10093

Seems a lot of it comes down to people either not remembering, or deliberately misstating, who they voted for at the last election. The polling companies try to correct for this in different ways, hence big difference in the numbers they report.

That is interesting. Think I might have to read it again to get it though
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Pokerpops
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« Reply #20882 on: September 17, 2019, 03:42:15 PM »

Didn't the Lib Dem surge just happen because people faced the reality of voting for a party with an ambiguous Brexit position, and not because Vince Cable was better than Jo Swinson.   Since she has taken over their support has remained at the level it was when she took over.

I don't realloy see why a 2nd referendum is so great, have people not learned anything from having one before?  And I don't see how a 1-1 score really helps.  I also don't think that there isn't much wrong in having a manifesto with a simple Brexit policy.   

Agree its legit fair etc to take this position into a GE and seek a mandate for it. Be interesting to see if it turns out to be a vote winner or loser

It’s fine to take the position, but it’s neither liberal, nor democratic.
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AndrewT
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« Reply #20883 on: September 17, 2019, 05:06:14 PM »

Didn't the Lib Dem surge just happen because people faced the reality of voting for a party with an ambiguous Brexit position, and not because Vince Cable was better than Jo Swinson.   Since she has taken over their support has remained at the level it was when she took over.

I don't realloy see why a 2nd referendum is so great, have people not learned anything from having one before?  And I don't see how a 1-1 score really helps.  I also don't think that there isn't much wrong in having a manifesto with a simple Brexit policy.   

Agree its legit fair etc to take this position into a GE and seek a mandate for it. Be interesting to see if it turns out to be a vote winner or loser

It’s fine to take the position, but it’s neither liberal, nor democratic.

But if the Lib Dem’s get voted into power on the basis of the position then it becomes democratic.
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« Reply #20884 on: September 17, 2019, 06:04:42 PM »

Didn't the Lib Dem surge just happen because people faced the reality of voting for a party with an ambiguous Brexit position, and not because Vince Cable was better than Jo Swinson.   Since she has taken over their support has remained at the level it was when she took over.

I don't realloy see why a 2nd referendum is so great, have people not learned anything from having one before?  And I don't see how a 1-1 score really helps.  I also don't think that there isn't much wrong in having a manifesto with a simple Brexit policy.   

Agree its legit fair etc to take this position into a GE and seek a mandate for it. Be interesting to see if it turns out to be a vote winner or loser

It’s fine to take the position, but it’s neither liberal, nor democratic.

Advisory referendum to inform policy. If you don't like the policy they have taken then don't vote for them. How is that undemocratic?
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BigAdz
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« Reply #20885 on: September 17, 2019, 06:14:31 PM »

Just heard the final Swinson pitch.

She really has let the job go to her head.
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« Reply #20886 on: September 17, 2019, 06:22:26 PM »

Didn't the Lib Dem surge just happen because people faced the reality of voting for a party with an ambiguous Brexit position, and not because Vince Cable was better than Jo Swinson.   Since she has taken over their support has remained at the level it was when she took over.

I don't realloy see why a 2nd referendum is so great, have people not learned anything from having one before?  And I don't see how a 1-1 score really helps.  I also don't think that there isn't much wrong in having a manifesto with a simple Brexit policy.   

Agree its legit fair etc to take this position into a GE and seek a mandate for it. Be interesting to see if it turns out to be a vote winner or loser

It’s fine to take the position, but it’s neither liberal, nor democratic.

But if the Lib Dem’s get voted into power on the basis of the position then it becomes democratic.

All rather hypothetical anyway, but at what level of support would it become democratic to simply ignore the referendum result?
It’s probable highly likely that a party could be elected on the strength of <17.4MM votes. If the Lib Dem’s win a majority on this single issue, but at around the 12MM vote mark where does that leave us?

and while we’re at it, how many fairies can sit on one pinhead?
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nirvana
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« Reply #20887 on: September 17, 2019, 06:44:29 PM »

Academic, childish dog whistling to fuming Waitrose shoppers. This shows beyond peradventure that the LDs are unelectable

n.b - new word learned today
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nirvana
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« Reply #20888 on: September 17, 2019, 06:47:36 PM »

In other news, Sam Gyimah just forgot that his affected speech requires him to drop g's at the end of words ending ing
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aaron1867
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« Reply #20889 on: September 17, 2019, 10:56:27 PM »

Didn't the Lib Dem surge just happen because people faced the reality of voting for a party with an ambiguous Brexit position, and not because Vince Cable was better than Jo Swinson.   Since she has taken over their support has remained at the level it was when she took over.

I don't realloy see why a 2nd referendum is so great, have people not learned anything from having one before?  And I don't see how a 1-1 score really helps.  I also don't think that there isn't much wrong in having a manifesto with a simple Brexit policy.   

The response to just revoking will be riots across the country. You can't just turn up and revoke something that 17.4m voted for. Their poliy is also silly, because there will be so much opposition to it. It's an immature policy & the backlash to Jo Swinson is clear.

At least a second ref gives a fairer for everyone.
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aaron1867
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« Reply #20890 on: September 18, 2019, 02:13:32 AM »

After seeing Cameron back on the scene, all be it to sell his book, its amazing to see people try and blame him for the mess we are in.

People voted to leave because of belief in £350m going to the NHS.

People voted leave because they believed Turkey would join the EU.

People voted leave because they thought suddenly it would stop people coming to the UK, based on Farage's gruesome poster.

The focus for Cameron was to finally unite the country and put the Europe question to bed. I don't think he would ever have imagined the lengths that Boris and Nigel would go to & obviously underestimating the number of racists and less intelligent folk we have in this country.

If you take out the folk who voted for the above, then we do not have Brexit.
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« Reply #20891 on: September 18, 2019, 07:45:21 AM »

After seeing Cameron back on the scene, all be it to sell his book, its amazing to see people try and blame him for the mess we are in.

People voted to leave because of belief in £350m going to the NHS.

People voted leave because they believed Turkey would join the EU.

People voted leave because they thought suddenly it would stop people coming to the UK, based on Farage's gruesome poster.

The focus for Cameron was to finally unite the country and put the Europe question to bed. I don't think he would ever have imagined the lengths that Boris and Nigel would go to & obviously underestimating the number of racists and less intelligent folk we have in this country.

If you take out the folk who voted for the above, then we do not have Brexit.

Cameron deserves all that he gets. He wasn’t attempting to ‘unite the country’, he was trying to unite the Tory Party because that would allow him to stay in power. Having succumbed to the pressure for a referendum he made so many errors in it’s presentation and then led the utterly ineffective Remain campaign. After which he ran away to his Shepherd’s Hut when it didn’t go his way. Twat.
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« Reply #20892 on: September 18, 2019, 07:47:49 AM »

After seeing Cameron back on the scene, all be it to sell his book, its amazing to see people try and blame him for the mess we are in.

People voted to leave because of belief in £350m going to the NHS.

People voted leave because they believed Turkey would join the EU.

People voted leave because they thought suddenly it would stop people coming to the UK, based on Farage's gruesome poster.

The focus for Cameron was to finally unite the country and put the Europe question to bed. I don't think he would ever have imagined the lengths that Boris and Nigel would go to & obviously underestimating the number of racists and less intelligent folk we have in this country.

If you take out the folk who voted for the above, then we do not have Brexit.

Yeah and if Barkley had scored that penalty it would of been a draw
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Jon MW
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« Reply #20893 on: September 18, 2019, 09:22:31 AM »

Didn't the Lib Dem surge just happen because people faced the reality of voting for a party with an ambiguous Brexit position, and not because Vince Cable was better than Jo Swinson.   Since she has taken over their support has remained at the level it was when she took over.

I don't realloy see why a 2nd referendum is so great, have people not learned anything from having one before?  And I don't see how a 1-1 score really helps.  I also don't think that there isn't much wrong in having a manifesto with a simple Brexit policy.   

Agree its legit fair etc to take this position into a GE and seek a mandate for it. Be interesting to see if it turns out to be a vote winner or loser

It’s fine to take the position, but it’s neither liberal, nor democratic.

But if the Lib Dem’s get voted into power on the basis of the position then it becomes democratic.

All rather hypothetical anyway, but at what level of support would it become democratic to simply ignore the referendum result?
...

When you have a General Election - you ignore the General Election result you had previously - they're both democratic results though.
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« Reply #20894 on: September 18, 2019, 09:34:55 AM »

Wonderful collage of footage doing the rounds at the moment of Swinson telling the Lib Dems how proud Paddy Ashdown would of been of her, and then one of his final clips. Post the referendum telling the camera he would be disgusted by any Lib Dem that ignored the democratic nature of the vote and tried to get it reversed, changed etc.

Someone get her on Neill or Marr and show her that.

Should take the wind out of her sails a bit.
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