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Author Topic: "The Online games are not fair anymore"  (Read 60960 times)
teddybloat
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« Reply #240 on: September 12, 2015, 11:47:54 AM »

Spinwiz is used by most spin and go regs.

As lobbies are blind you cannot avoid players not using the program like you can with sharkystrator. the queue itself is not blind either. you can see everyone who is currently queueing. more importantly you can sit them, and they can sit you.

some background. Spin and gos are 3 handed games, registration is blind so you click register and you are placed into a lobby and when it has 3 people in it it launches. the ideal situation is for a reg to get two recs on his table. the worst is 2 regs. 1 reg games are profitable.

spin wiz lines the regs in a queue and regs us in seperate lobbies: unless we sit each other.

why would we sit each other? well to move to the front of the queue/ so if you mark a fellow user when they reach the front of the queue you join their tables with one non-user. the same can happen to you if you are marked. wait times at 30's+ without sitting people are unbearable. to grind spin and gos you have to be prepared to play regs. i sit anyone who isnt a HUSNG hyper reg. to a HUSNG player a non HU specialist may as well be treated as a competent recreational, no matter their success in other formats. so 6max, MTT, cash crushers will be targetted if they use the program. non-division members will be targetted by division members and lower divsion members by higher division members. it is again and incredibly competitive enviroment.

there are a number of players huntig me [you can see who is hunting you]. most regs understand that sitting other regs is the only way to get volume. some however get very pissy about it. some are delusional. here is a recent 2+2 post asking about spinwiz:

Quote
Can anybody tell me how is the situation registering with Spin Wiz avoiding others regs at tables for each buy in 30$ 60$ 100$ ?

I mean are waiting lists longs for each of these stake?

How much you have to wait for a single Spin in average for each of these stake?

Quote
1) I suppose that users of spin wiz are all regs, can t imagine that recreationals buy license for spin wiz, even know about is existence or am I wrong?

2) Ok, so I see waiting list are not short... I imagine at 60$ and 100$ is hard to get decent volume.
Is it easy to multitable at 30$ steadily 4x, or even here I have to mix stakes?

what he doesnt understand is that he will be marked by just about every HUSNG reg ad many other spinwiz regs that dont like waiting and as soon as he finishes waiting 40 mins for a table he will be joined by a user 99% of the time. again bumhunters need not apply. many would stand a better chance of 2 rec games by manual regging. indeed i manually regged $15s and man reg a lot of my $30 volume. i sit most of the queue at 30s to get volume. most regs are the same.

a lot of the better regs manually reg all stakes which can mean that 3 reg games can be very common.

without spinwiz, a lot of regs would simply use skype to reg at different times it. it would mean more reg v reg game, and very likely fewer regs playing. whether that benefits stars enough to make them ban 3rd party registration i dont know.

it certainly wouldnt impact on me too much atm as i dont always use the program on my grind.

it would likely mean the formation of HUSNG style divisions with the best HUSNG players only allowing HUSNG regs into skype registration chats to avoid each other, and people having to play their way in or else take their chances with random registration. it would still be very profitable to do so given the softness of the games.








  
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tikay
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« Reply #241 on: September 12, 2015, 11:53:41 AM »



Sorry to be a pain, & all this is fascinating, but I don't much understand any of it.

Waiting lists? Why are there waiting lists? Why don't more tables spawn?
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teddybloat
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« Reply #242 on: September 12, 2015, 11:54:59 AM »

Quote

Those 2 links are bizarre.

It's a different world.

How exactly do they ban players from playing at a certain level? Do 'Stars gave anything to say on the matter?

I'll stick to my HUD-less tenner SNG's I think. Me & 5 others, may the best man win.

they dont ban anybody.

but if you open sit they will snap sit you. they simply dont sit fellow memebers.

people are welcome to sit, but they have to then play the best players at that stake.

its like if you saw a dym with jac35, nutter, patwalshh and geradirl already regged, you might not want a seat at that DYM. they arent banning you from playing that table, but their presence means non-recreational players wont be eager.

the same apllies to HUSNGs. knowing dan colman was ready to play you hour after hour was enough to keep most players away.

note this doesnt affect recreationals. they still play regs in HUSNG's as before. its regs that suffer, bad regs especially. and there is zero bumhunting in the lobbies now. you either play regs or dont play. stars have repeatedly said that they dont care for the woes of bumhunters and as long as recreationals can get a game when they want it then they dont have anything to say on the matter.

the age old rule applies: if you dont like being sat, dont open sit.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 11:58:15 AM by teddybloat » Logged
teddybloat
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« Reply #243 on: September 12, 2015, 11:57:23 AM »



Sorry to be a pain, & all this is fascinating, but I don't much understand any of it.

Waiting lists? Why are there waiting lists? Why don't more tables spawn?

the waiting list exists only within the 3rd party program. when you get to the top of the list you get registered into a lobby. when they lobby fills and a game is launched then the everybody moves up a place and the #2 gets registered in a lobby.

if you have #1 marked you are placed into his lobby, effectively jumping the queue. hence incentive to sit people
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teddybloat
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« Reply #244 on: September 12, 2015, 12:07:43 PM »

with regard to stars, look at skaiwlkurrr's graph again:

for many years he was earning $500k+.

this year he has lost $60k to rake. and his opponents have done worse as he has won 50.1% of games. stars are making more money than ever through this system. money isnt leaving bankrolls to other bankrolls it is being recycled into rake.

reg warring has expoentially increasesd. i doubt there is another variant of the game where regs put in as much volume against each other than HUSNGs and Spin and Gos. bu especially HU.

games are so much tougher for regs because of it.

competitive enviroments cant be bad for the game imo. and much better than the system that preceeded them, where regs avoided each other and only played recreationals.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 12:10:01 PM by teddybloat » Logged
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« Reply #245 on: September 12, 2015, 02:53:28 PM »

Having re-read this thread I just can't remove this image from my mind.

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« Reply #246 on: September 12, 2015, 02:56:58 PM »

Was told about a program called "spin wiz" which i believe ensures regs playing spin and go's will only ever be seated with non-regulars. Not 100% sure of the details though



Makes me sad that every attempt to give Recs a better chance / fairer game is undermined in a short time period.


Don't you play in the DTD 'no pros allowed' game?
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« Reply #247 on: September 12, 2015, 03:02:32 PM »

Quote

Those 2 links are bizarre.

It's a different world.

How exactly do they ban players from playing at a certain level? Do 'Stars gave anything to say on the matter?

I'll stick to my HUD-less tenner SNG's I think. Me & 5 others, may the best man win.

they dont ban anybody.

but if you open sit they will snap sit you. they simply dont sit fellow memebers.

people are welcome to sit, but they have to then play the best players at that stake.

its like if you saw a dym with jac35, nutter, patwalshh and geradirl already regged, you might not want a seat at that DYM. they arent banning you from playing that table, but their presence means non-recreational players wont be eager.

the same apllies to HUSNGs. knowing dan colman was ready to play you hour after hour was enough to keep most players away.

note this doesnt affect recreationals. they still play regs in HUSNG's as before. its regs that suffer, bad regs especially. and there is zero bumhunting in the lobbies now. you either play regs or dont play. stars have repeatedly said that they dont care for the woes of bumhunters and as long as recreationals can get a game when they want it then they dont have anything to say on the matter.

the age old rule applies: if you dont like being sat, dont open sit.

You make it sound like recreational players will be eagerly queuing up to get involved but non rec's won't.  This thread really is comical to read.
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« Reply #248 on: September 12, 2015, 03:07:45 PM »

Fascinating stuff teddy, really interesting read. Are the people that make the software programs like spinwiz poker players? Or just employed by poker players to make these programs as quickly as possible?
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teddybloat
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« Reply #249 on: September 12, 2015, 03:10:02 PM »

Quote
You make it sound like recreational players will be eagerly queuing up to get involved but non rec's won't.  This thread really is comical to read.

recs will be more likely to join a DYM with 4 regs already registered than a reg.

recs will be less likely to even check who is alread registered and more likely to join the lobby 'blind'

i stand by that comment.

its why open sitting is so profitable.
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arbboy
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« Reply #250 on: September 12, 2015, 03:10:08 PM »

with regard to stars, look at skaiwlkurrr's graph again:

for many years he was earning $500k+.

this year he has lost $60k to rake. and his opponents have done worse as he has won 50.1% of games. stars are making more money than ever through this system. money isnt leaving bankrolls to other bankrolls it is being recycled into rake.

reg warring has expoentially increasesd. i doubt there is another variant of the game where regs put in as much volume against each other than HUSNGs and Spin and Gos. bu especially HU.

games are so much tougher for regs because of it.

competitive enviroments cant be bad for the game imo. and much better than the system that preceeded them, where regs avoided each other and only played recreationals.

Competitive environments are perfect for the poker sites PROVIDING people are happy to keep playing against each other when they know they can't win long term.  If not volumes just fall through the floor long term and everyone loses.
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jakally
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« Reply #251 on: September 12, 2015, 03:13:33 PM »

Was told about a program called "spin wiz" which i believe ensures regs playing spin and go's will only ever be seated with non-regulars. Not 100% sure of the details though



Makes me sad that every attempt to give Recs a better chance / fairer game is undermined in a short time period.


Don't you play in the DTD 'no Mitchs & Alexs' game?

Not really a thing anymore, if there ever was.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 03:27:25 PM by jakally » Logged
teddybloat
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« Reply #252 on: September 12, 2015, 03:13:55 PM »

with regard to stars, look at skaiwlkurrr's graph again:

for many years he was earning $500k+.

this year he has lost $60k to rake. and his opponents have done worse as he has won 50.1% of games. stars are making more money than ever through this system. money isnt leaving bankrolls to other bankrolls it is being recycled into rake.

reg warring has expoentially increasesd. i doubt there is another variant of the game where regs put in as much volume against each other than HUSNGs and Spin and Gos. bu especially HU.

games are so much tougher for regs because of it.

competitive enviroments cant be bad for the game imo. and much better than the system that preceeded them, where regs avoided each other and only played recreationals.

Competitive environments are perfect for the poker sites PROVIDING people are happy to keep playing against each other when they know they can't win long term.  If not volumes just fall through the floor long term and everyone loses.

the point is they are sacrificing short term profitability for long-term gain.

HUSNG's are ridiculously low variance for the hourly they provide.

the ability to open sit a lobby is worth risking losing months as the reward for getting in is so massive.
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teddybloat
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« Reply #253 on: September 12, 2015, 03:26:16 PM »

Fascinating stuff teddy, really interesting read. Are the people that make the software programs like spinwiz poker players? Or just employed by poker players to make these programs as quickly as possible?

the HUSNG registration software was made by a man called Marko. he is a famously prickly individual who has public fallings out with many players. he is probably one of the most powerful men in HUNSG poker. he withheld a licence from a professional going under the name ph33roX. this meant the player had to give-up playing hypers on stars. as you cannot be in a divsion without it, nor get a lobby without it. this effectively ended his career as a husng professional and he had to learn other formats.

the spat is documented here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/185/heads-up-sng-spin-gos/how-i-got-banned-sharky-1350618/#post39281197

he also fell out with dan colman who was in such a position of power at the top of the 1k tree that he could simply skype his fellow 1k regs and ask them to turn off sharky when he was grinding.

the spat is documented here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/185/heads-up-sng-spin-gos/hu-sng-regs-thread-505302/index7927.html

spinwiz was created by commission by a number of HUSNG regs i believe. they are much more open than marko and have not banned anyone, and have publically stated they will run the program fairly and without bias. an interview with the creator can be found here:

http://www.husng.com/content/interview-spinwiz-owner-and-creator-sander-meister

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jakally
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« Reply #254 on: September 12, 2015, 03:30:12 PM »

and have publically stated they will run the program fairly and without bias.


That's so kind of them. Might write a letter to them as a way of saying thank you.
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