"The Online games are not fair anymore"

[teddybloat]

ridiculous situation where people are grateful for fairness, innit.

[jakally]

ridiculous situation where people are grateful for fairness, innit.

If it was genuinely fair, then it would be reason to be grateful.
It may be fair on a Reg v Reg basis, but the whole situation is increasingly unhealthy for recreational players. Just feels rancid.

[arbboy]

Fascinating stuff teddy, really interesting read. Are the people that make the software programs like spinwiz poker players? Or just employed by poker players to make these programs as quickly as possible?

the HUSNG registration software was made by a man called Marko. he is a famously prickly individual who has public fallings out with many players. he is probably one of the most powerful men in HUNSG poker. he withheld a licence from a professional going under the name ph33roX. this meant the player had to give-up playing hypers on stars. as you cannot be in a divsion without it, nor get a lobby without it. this effectively ended his career as a husng professional and he had to learn other formats.

the spat is documented here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/185/heads-up-sng-spin-gos/how-i-got-banned-sharky-1350618/#post39281197

he also fell out with dan colman who was in such a position of power at the top of the 1k tree that he could simply skype his fellow 1k regs and ask them to turn off sharky when he was grinding.

the spat is documented here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/185/heads-up-sng-spin-gos/hu-sng-regs-thread-505302/index7927.html

spinwiz was created by commission by a number of HUSNG regs i believe. they are much more open than marko and have not banned anyone, and have publically stated they will run the program fairly and without bias. an interview with the creator can be found here:

http://www.husng.com/content/interview-spinwiz-owner-and-creator-sander-meister

When did he take over from Camel?  

I find it amazing someone who owns a piece of software can dictate to players who does and doesn't play on a site as big as poker stars.   If these lists were for the good of the game why don't Pokerstars develop them themselves and outlaw anyone else's software?

[FUN4FRASER]

Good Posts Teddy.

This really confirms what most people have known for sometime , combined with the nonsense and bum hunting that occurs in cash games it effectively leaves tournament poker as the only form of on line poker which is remotely  fair , even then we know there is multi accounting plus MTT positions can be sold and taken over by pros on final tables ( Sorrel Mizzi and Justin Bonomo etc)

If recs etc really knew the extent of " the on line goings on " then I'm sure there would be a massive upsurge in the live scene

[teddybloat]

If it was genuinely fair, then it would be reason to be grateful.
It may be fair on a Reg v Reg basis, but the whole situation is increasingly unhealthy for recreational players. Just feels rancid.

the HUSNG registration software has near zero impact on recreationals.

there simply was never a time where you could log onto stars and register an empty $30 hyper-turbo and play anyone other than a reg / professional. the losers have been bumhunting regs many of whom have dropped down to low stakes from high-stakes.

the spin and go situation is slightly different, as it does provide a work-around for the blind lobbies. as 3 reg games are rarer 3 recreational games will be rarer, and the average ability of opponents in games will be greater - at lower stakes anyway. it's likely that they would always play regs higher up due to the smaller rec player pool. if players dropped spinwiz and all manually registered its likely groupd of regs would still avoid each other by using chat groups to reg at different times.

atm as most spinwiz games are launching with two users its likely the effect of the program is proabably mitigated somewhat. but yes the average ability of opponents will have gotten better from the veiw-point of non-users.

again stars can simply ban the software and have fewer regs playing. that is a business decision that they can take.

[teddybloat]

I find it amazing someone who owns a piece of software can dictate to players who does and doesn't play on a site as big as poker stars.   If these lists were for the good of the game why don't Pokerstars develop them themselves and outlaw anyone else's software?

yah pretty amazing. although technically he can still play on stars, but he just wouldnt be able to play recreationals. thats a choice he has to make. but he is not banned from stars.

the divisions formed as a reaction to sharkystrator. if there was no registration software then the best regs would simply sit the lobbies and everyone else would either have to play them or move down. this would resemble sky where you will see the same 1-3 names sitting an entire stake and until they fill their table limits you have a choice of playing them or waiting for them to leave a lobby open [because they have games running already].

atm 5/6 £105 games on sky are regged by two players. if you want a game you play them. simple. they arent playing each other. likely if i sat there they would sit me as they would want to protect that lobby from a low stakes 'reg'.

http://pasteboard.co/Aost7Qs.png

on stars the presence of sharky allowed people to hide in a queue. the divisions were organised to stop bad regs from doing so.

to stars it makes no difference. games fire off just as quickly for recreationals. its good for the better regs as they get a better hourly. its bad for bad regs as they stop making money.

[teddybloat]

Good Posts Teddy.

This really confirms what most people have known for sometime , combined with the nonsense and bum hunting that occurs in cash games it effectively leaves tournament poker as the only form of on line poker which is remotely  fair , even then we know there is multi accounting plus MTT positions can be sold and taken over by pros on final tables ( Sorrel Mizzi and Justin Bonomo etc)

If recs etc really knew the extent of " the on line goings on " then I'm sure there would be a massive upsurge in the live scene

HUSNG's are brutally fair on all sites and up to $200 limits on stars [where the politics becomes ever increasingly shady].

all the division lists and entry requirements are open.

if you are good enough you climb the stakes. you cannot refuse action. you cannot sit-out once you are in a game.

for a good player there is great incentive to play. and recreationals get a bang for their buck.

most regs have a 51.5-53% itm over large samples.

recs are near flipping for their money in an extremely action heavy intense format

sat 100bb deep in a 6max game that isnt the case.

[arbboy]

I find it amazing someone who owns a piece of software can dictate to players who does and doesn't play on a site as big as poker stars.   If these lists were for the good of the game why don't Pokerstars develop them themselves and outlaw anyone else's software?

yah pretty amazing. although technically he can still play on stars, but he just wouldnt be able to play recreationals. thats a choice he has to make. but he is not banned from stars.

the divisions formed as a reaction to sharkystrator. if there was no registration software then the best regs would simply sit the lobbies and everyone else would either have to play them or move down. this would resemble sky where you will see the same 1-3 names sitting an entire stake and until they fill their table limits you have a choice of playing them or waiting for them to leave a lobby open [because they have games running already].

atm 5/6 £105 games on sky are regged by two players. if you want a game you play them. simple. they arent playing each other. likely if i sat there they would sit me as they would want to protect that lobby from a low stakes 'reg'.

http://pasteboard.co/Aost7Qs.png

on stars the presence of sharky allowed people to hide in a queue. the divisions were organised to stop bad regs from doing so.

to stars it makes no difference. games fire off just as quickly for recreationals. its good for the better regs as they get a better hourly. its bad for bad regs as they stop making money.

Why should he have to make that choice?  It is incredible that any poker stars player does not have the absolute right to play any player/game they choose without someone who has no say in pokerstars deciding whether they can or they can't.

[jakally]

If it was genuinely fair, then it would be reason to be grateful.
It may be fair on a Reg v Reg basis, but the whole situation is increasingly unhealthy for recreational players. Just feels rancid.

the HUSNG registration software has near zero impact on recreationals.

there simply was never a time where you could log onto stars and register an empty $30 hyper-turbo and play anyone other than a reg / professional. the losers have been bumhunting regs many of whom have dropped down to low stakes from high-stakes.

the spin and go situation is slightly different, as it does provide a work-around for the blind lobbies. as 3 reg games are rarer 3 recreational games will be rarer, and the average ability of opponents in games will be greater - at lower stakes anyway. it's likely that they would always play regs higher up due to the smaller rec player pool. if players dropped spinwiz and all manually registered its likely groupd of regs would still avoid each other by using chat groups to reg at different times.

atm as most spinwiz games are launching with two users its likely the effect of the program is proabably mitigated somewhat. but yes the average ability of opponents will have gotten better from the veiw-point of non-users.

again stars can simply ban the software and have fewer regs playing. that is a business decision that they can take.

I was referring to Spin n Go's.
Spin n Go's appeared to be an attempt to make seating for games more random, so that recreational players could not be targeted, and Rec's could, sometimes, be playing games against other recs.
That is why SpinWiz is rancid, and extremely bad for recreational players.

[teddybloat]

i agree. i can actually see who is using the software and at what stakes:

looking now there are zero spinwiz users at $1 or $3.

there are two hardy souls using it to avoid each other in the vast $7 playing pool and about 20 @ $15s [completely useless at this level unless you are in a stable imo]

at $30's there are about 60 regs using it

and about 45 regs at 60s and 100s.

to give an idea of action, games take about 40 seconds to fire off from the first person regging at the higher limts . the higher limit regs would simply use skype to register apart.

recs at $30s and 60s are the ones affected by spinwiz atm.

[teddybloat]

Why should he have to make that choice?  It is incredible that any poker stars player does not have the absolute right to play any player/game they choose without someone who has no say in pokerstars deciding whether they can or they can't.

he can though. he can chose to manually regisister a lobby or join a reg at the tables. he has that right.

if stars banned sharkystrator tomorrow he'd be in a better position, but stars dont concern themselves with the needs of regs who want to only play recreational players. as long as recs can find instant action they aint assed. thats their public position on the matter.

personally i find it extremely un-nerving that marko has so much power. its certainly perverse.

[EvilPie]

So if I was to fire up a $60 spin n go right now it would almost instantly fill with 5 regs who had a piece of software running in the background waiting for someone just like me?

[MANTIS01]

Is it possible they can somehow use this software for dating websites? So a young inexperienced guy can register and instantly be bombarded with hot experienced girls? I think that's where the money's at.

[teddybloat]

you would be more likely to face 2 regs [if we define spinwiz users as 'regs'] than you would be if the software didnt exist, yes.

that isnt the case below $30's or above $60's

[they are 3max btw]

[titaniumbean]

So if I was to fire up a $60 spin n go right now it would almost instantly fill with 5 regs who had a piece of software running in the background waiting for someone just like me?

yeh but huds and workrate are the real problem....


can we also not pretend that live games are all good and healthy with well intentioned people.

c'est la vie.