Syria, Migrants and Online Comments

[DungBeetle]

Are we any closer to an answer to Mondatoos question? Why British people first?

I'm passed even being arsed about answering this question because I know your itching to tell us why those of us who think that are wrong with the usual finger wagging that comes with it, but if you want to anyway knock yourself out mate.

The answer to the question is because there is a contract over many years between a State and its citizens which works both ways.

in this case the human tragedy outweighs that but when people want to 'put Brits first' this is the argument many would be using rather than xenophobia imo.

[mulhuzz]

Are we any closer to an answer to Mondatoos question? Why British people first?

I'm passed even being arsed about answering this question because I know your itching to tell us why those of us who think that are wrong with the usual finger wagging that comes with it, but if you want to anyway knock yourself out mate.

Because as a country we have a finite power to do good and it makes sense this should be spent on those closest to home.

This isn't my view btw just an argument I'm curious to see countered.

I think your remarks about the armed forces are rather disparaging Mulhuzz. I met someone from the army recently, we were both half cut and I asked him a very personal question of "Why did you join the armed forces, I thought about it when I was younger and I couldn't fight for something I don't always believe in." He told me he has seen the good they have done in places like Afghanistan where people have faced horrible oppression. He could see a difference in the civilians around him. They signed up to do a job and I don't think you should blame individuals for something politicians have made them do. The Forces do make a difference in these places and whilst the impact of it may come with problems and may even be incorrect or something you disagree with, do not blame the individual.

It does surprise me how people who are so pro refugee can be seemingly so against helping homeless people in Britain. Does it not worry you that there is a unusually high proportion of homeless people that are ex servicemen? I'm as pro refugee as it comes but the arguments have come too far the other way in the topic. I hope my views come across as well as Nirvanas post, I tried to say a very similar thing.

You're right, I was trying to make the point that this kind of straw man argument is ridiculous.

However, I was 9 pints of Czech beer to the wind on a school night, so it didn't come across quite as eloquently as I'd have liked and I look like I am simply bashing the armed forces. That is absolutely not my intention!

For what it's worth, I'm very much both anti-homeless and pro-refugee. In the end, those two things are really the same thing. I'm trying to say that lists of importance or where we should 'start' are silly. The problems are not mutually exclusive. We can solve both. And we should.

Re homelessness though, I wouldn't be a fan of solving homelessness only for the armed forces - the approach has to be holistic. It may be ofc that there are special circumstances affecting the armed forces which make homelessness more likely, I honestly don't know. If that's the case, then we should solve that problem, but as a particular intervention in a wider gamete of treatments.

It's 2015 in one of the richest countries on the planet. Nobody, ex serviceman, nurse, bin man or those fleeing war in their own countries should be left without a home.

[MANTIS01]

Confused by the confusion about 'help your own'.

RED-DOG you often highlight the persecution of Gypsies, as you have done in this thread. I'm guessing it's because ur a Gypsy. I'm also guessing leethefish was in the armed forces. You guys are free to highlight the plight of many different groups..yet choose to 'help your own'.

Simple human nature to express a preference for folk you consider brethren,

I highlighted the persecution, i didn't say they should take precedence.

They did take precedence by the very fact you highlighted the plight of that group instead of any other group.

[RED-DOG]

Confused by the confusion about 'help your own'.

RED-DOG you often highlight the persecution of Gypsies, as you have done in this thread. I'm guessing it's because ur a Gypsy. I'm also guessing leethefish was in the armed forces. You guys are free to highlight the plight of many different groups..yet choose to 'help your own'.

Simple human nature to express a preference for folk you consider brethren,

I highlighted the persecution, i didn't say they should take precedence.

They did take precedence by the very fact you highlighted the plight of that group instead of any other group.

I did not.

Perhaps you could look back through the thread and count up the number of times I referenced the plight of the refugees v the number of times I referenced the Gypsies.

You are then more than welcome to GTFO. 

[RED-DOG]

And before you make any smart Alec remarks remember this. I have my finger at the ready an I am totally prepared to wag it.

[AndrewT]

This has been a very civilised debate so far - we wouldn't want it to decline to the point where people started wagging fingers at each other - we're not animals.

[MANTIS01]

Confused by the confusion about 'help your own'.

RED-DOG you often highlight the persecution of Gypsies, as you have done in this thread. I'm guessing it's because ur a Gypsy. I'm also guessing leethefish was in the armed forces. You guys are free to highlight the plight of many different groups..yet choose to 'help your own'.

Simple human nature to express a preference for folk you consider brethren,

I highlighted the persecution, i didn't say they should take precedence.

They did take precedence by the very fact you highlighted the plight of that group instead of any other group.

I did not.

Perhaps you could look back through the thread and count up the number of times I referenced the plight of the refugees v the number of times I referenced the Gypsies.

You are then more than welcome to GTFO. 

Yo, I did look back and hey presto you highlight the plight of Gypsies on the first page of a thread about Syrian refugees. Wag away Mr Preference.

[tikay]

This has been a very civilised debate so far - we wouldn't want it to decline to the point where people started wagging fingers at each other - we're not animals.

Exactly.

Finger wagging should be limited to the HUD's debate.

[buzzharvey22]

My only view on this whole subject, is that people with topknots should be helped last.

[mulhuzz]

My only view on this whole subject, is that people with topknots should be helped last.

I think that's a given.

[mulhuzz]

I wonder if with hindsight we now consider "The Arab Spring" which involved the overthrowing all or most of those dictators to be a good thing or not.

Undoubtedly yes.

[leethefish]

A post on Facebook from one of my friends


Just a little thought for do gooders. I and my mates served in Bosnia 94. We done more than enough escorting food and humanitarian aid through the country. We kept checkpoints secure so aid could reach the vulnerable. We saw the aftermath of a country wrecked and ravaged by war. Kids we saw with nothing no clothes on there backs or food to eat. I am fed up to the back teeth of do gooders and lefties. Go and do a  tour in a ravaged land. And see how the British army is the best at hearts and minds and helping the poorest of the poor!


I was also in Bosnia in 1994
i thought it said perhaps why I felt quite strongly

[TightEnd]

A post on Facebook from one of my friends


Just a little thought for do gooders. I and my mates served in Bosnia 94. We done more than enough escorting food and humanitarian aid through the country. We kept checkpoints secure so aid could reach the vulnerable. We saw the aftermath of a country wrecked and ravaged by war. Kids we saw with nothing no clothes on there backs or food to eat. I am fed up to the back teeth of do gooders and lefties. Go and do a  tour in a ravaged land. And see how the British army is the best at hearts and minds and helping the poorest of the poor!


I was also in Bosnia in 1994
i thought it said perhaps why I felt quite strongly

but no one is doubting that, or the role of the armed forces and specifically the good they can do in a humanitarian sense

just that the issue of problems for servicemen ex-service is a different issue from that of refugees and that to suggest that "helping our own" first or a subset of "our own" first rather misses the point, and they shouldn't take priority in some people's opinion

[Doobs]

A post on Facebook from one of my friends


Just a little thought for do gooders. I and my mates served in Bosnia 94. We done more than enough escorting food and humanitarian aid through the country. We kept checkpoints secure so aid could reach the vulnerable. We saw the aftermath of a country wrecked and ravaged by war. Kids we saw with nothing no clothes on there backs or food to eat. I am fed up to the back teeth of do gooders and lefties. Go and do a  tour in a ravaged land. And see how the British army is the best at hearts and minds and helping the poorest of the poor!


I was also in Bosnia in 1994
i thought it said perhaps why I felt quite strongly

I am not sure I understand.  Why are you fed up of people wanting to do good?  You have previously done good yourself.  I just don't follow the reasoning.

[AndrewT]

If you are setting yourself up in a group that is distinct from do-gooders, then what does that make you?

A do-badder? A do-nothinger?