It's mark up time of the year again!

[nirvana]

Makes me laugh a fair bit how faux sensitive and outraged everyone is by a passing reference to morons - the only questions here are really about mark ups and staking - who cares if someone says RM's, recs, fun players, fish - I don't care.

I find loads of staking requests and threads much more offensive than this whole discussion but just cause we take offence doesn't mean we have the moral high ground - just means we're easily offended.

I find it offensive that these threads might get me some stick for selling at spot

Do you ever sell anything when you go to Vegas Marky ?

[Rexas]

There is a certain darkness about being all friendly and nice as pie to the poker fish too I think.

Nearly wrote about this too - it's like one of the worst aspects of poker when it's contrived.

What would you prefer? All the pros sat around with hoodies and headphones, occasionally commenting on how shit you're playing compared to them? Tbh I found that the more I made an effort to be nice, the more I found that actually it was quite good fun and everyone, myself included, had a much better time. Yes, there is a certain darkness to it, but at the same time, what are the "poker fish" coming to the casino for? They're coming hoping to win, I imagine, but not necessarily expecting to, the primary reason is to enjoy themselves. On the other hand, the "pro" is going there to make money, and by being nice to the "poker fish" the "pro" contributes to them enjoying themselves, even though the "fish" loses money to them. Feels like both people get what they want, no?

[celtic]

Makes me laugh a fair bit how faux sensitive and outraged everyone is by a passing reference to morons - the only questions here are really about mark ups and staking - who cares if someone says RM's, recs, fun players, fish - I don't care.

I find loads of staking requests and threads much more offensive than this whole discussion but just cause we take offence doesn't mean we have the moral high ground - just means we're easily offended.

I find it offensive that these threads might get me some stick for selling at spot

Do you ever sell anything when you go to Vegas Marky ?

His backside, so he can pay for the flight home.

[arbboy]

I know what nirvana means by the cringe attempts by some highly skilled but socially clueless poker nerds to attempt to keep he fish happy.  I have seen some unreal attempts in my time.  Best way to integrate the fish is get pissed with them if they are drinking as usually the other pros at the table if they don't know you assume you are a fish as well whilst the real fish just think you are one of them.  Worked a treat at alea for me the other weekend in Nottingham.  I tilt stacked the local reg nit who paid me off because I was pissed and all the Saturday night casuals just didn't want to play hands against the local nit reg and proceeded to stack off to me.

 Three hours later after I called him a bum hunter for moving seats to get position on me after I stacked him he squared up to me and offered me outside totally sober all ten stone of him!!

[nirvana]

There is a certain darkness about being all friendly and nice as pie to the poker fish too I think.

Nearly wrote about this too - it's like one of the worst aspects of poker when it's contrived.

What would you prefer? All the pros sat around with hoodies and headphones, occasionally commenting on how shit you're playing compared to them? Tbh I found that the more I made an effort to be nice, the more I found that actually it was quite good fun and everyone, myself included, had a much better time. Yes, there is a certain darkness to it, but at the same time, what are the "poker fish" coming to the casino for? They're coming hoping to win, I imagine, but not necessarily expecting to, the primary reason is to enjoy themselves. On the other hand, the "pro" is going there to make money, and by being nice to the "poker fish" the "pro" contributes to them enjoying themselves, even though the "fish" loses money to them. Feels like both people get what they want, no?

Obv, it's very personal but my enjoyment of an evening of poker is independent of what others are doing in general terms. My preference, of course, would be to sit with people who naturally straddle being a decent pro and decent company - I can think of quite a lot of these.

But, any old pro or grinder being 'nice' to me doesn't really help my enjoyment   They want my money and i'm as happy giving it some sullen cunty bollox as much as someone whose smile doesn't quite reach their eyes.

I kinda take yr ticket though and I'm sure it's important for quite a lot of recs when they go out to play- I'm lucky cause I'm probably, wealthier, better looking, more intelligent, funnier and more socially adequate than them already so I don't need their 'nice' to make me feel OK - I would just feel slightly patronised by it.

[nirvana]

Makes me laugh a fair bit how faux sensitive and outraged everyone is by a passing reference to morons - the only questions here are really about mark ups and staking - who cares if someone says RM's, recs, fun players, fish - I don't care.

I find loads of staking requests and threads much more offensive than this whole discussion but just cause we take offence doesn't mean we have the moral high ground - just means we're easily offended.

I find it offensive that these threads might get me some stick for selling at spot

Do you ever sell anything when you go to Vegas Marky ?

His backside, so he can pay for the flight home.

Haha, what an image that conjures up

[nirvana]

I know what nirvana means by the cringe attempts by some highly skilled but socially clueless poker nerds to attempt to keep he fish happy.  I have seen some unreal attempts in my time.  Best way to integrate the fish is get pissed with them if they are drinking as usually the other pros at the table if they don't know you assume you are a fish as well whilst the real fish just think you are one of them.  Worked a treat at alea for me the other weekend in Nottingham.  I tilt stacked the local reg nit who paid me off because I was pissed and all the Saturday night casuals just didn't want to play hands against the local nit reg and proceeded to stack off to me.

 Three hours later after I called him a bum hunter for moving seats to get position on me after I stacked him he squared up to me and offered me outside totally sober all ten stone of him!!

That first line is exactly how I was thinking - fine line between being just social/welcoming and cringey I guess

[Marky147]

Makes me laugh a fair bit how faux sensitive and outraged everyone is by a passing reference to morons - the only questions here are really about mark ups and staking - who cares if someone says RM's, recs, fun players, fish - I don't care.

I find loads of staking requests and threads much more offensive than this whole discussion but just cause we take offence doesn't mean we have the moral high ground - just means we're easily offended.

I find it offensive that these threads might get me some stick for selling at spot

Do you ever sell anything when you go to Vegas Marky ?

Yeah, I have done for the $1k comps I've played the last couple times that I've been. One year I actually sold at spot, and refunded at 1.2, which was probably the best result they could have hoped for.

Think it was on here actually, but can't remember for sure. Means I can have a few goes at some bigger comps, and not impact the vodka kitty too much.

@ Vin - Thankfully never had to brass myself off, as I doubt even Vegas has much market for bald cripples, lol.

[Karabiner]

I know what nirvana means by the cringe attempts by some highly skilled but socially clueless poker nerds to attempt to keep he fish happy.  I have seen some unreal attempts in my time.  Best way to integrate the fish is get pissed with them if they are drinking as usually the other pros at the table if they don't know you assume you are a fish as well whilst the real fish just think you are one of them.  Worked a treat at alea for me the other weekend in Nottingham.  I tilt stacked the local reg nit who paid me off because I was pissed and all the Saturday night casuals just didn't want to play hands against the local nit reg and proceeded to stack off to me.

 Three hours later after I called him a bum hunter for moving seats to get position on me after I stacked him he squared up to me and offered me outside totally sober all ten stone of him!!

Who was that?

Feel free to PM me the dirt if you don't feel like posting it.

Did you get a nice cash?

[Rexas]

Three hours later after I called him a bum hunter for moving seats to get position on me after I stacked him he squared up to me and offered me outside totally sober all ten stone of him!!

Maybe he thought you were being homophobic?

[arbboy]

I know what nirvana means by the cringe attempts by some highly skilled but socially clueless poker nerds to attempt to keep he fish happy.  I have seen some unreal attempts in my time.  Best way to integrate the fish is get pissed with them if they are drinking as usually the other pros at the table if they don't know you assume you are a fish as well whilst the real fish just think you are one of them.  Worked a treat at alea for me the other weekend in Nottingham.  I tilt stacked the local reg nit who paid me off because I was pissed and all the Saturday night casuals just didn't want to play hands against the local nit reg and proceeded to stack off to me.

 Three hours later after I called him a bum hunter for moving seats to get position on me after I stacked him he squared up to me and offered me outside totally sober all ten stone of him!!

Who was that?

Feel free to PM me the dirt if you don't feel like posting it.

Did you get a nice cash?

No idea who the young kid was.  He looked about 18 and weighed about 10 stone. Looked like he would have a paper round to do in the morning when he got home. To say i was shocked when he squared up to me at 6am stone cold sober when he had barely said a word all night was one of the funniest live poker moments ever.  

[danshreddies]

Urghhh I really feel like i need to clarity something. I in no way meant to offend anyone or make out that the whole poker community were morons. I don't think or believe this. My use of 'rando morons' was directed at nobody personally but clueless peole that don't think about what they are doing and just click buttons. This only in referred to the main event and the complete newbees that you wouldn't get in any other 10k tourney and i meant it in a way of poining out 'dead money' and value, rather than offending people. just as i would say "morons on the roads make driving dangerous" (and not expect people to take offence at that). I meant it as poker morons, i wasn't calling anyone a poker moron specifically.

"Being a lesser poker player does not make a person a moron."  I couldn't agree more with this... and in no way meant to berate the poker world.

Anyone that knows me will know that i wouldn't have meant offence by this at all. A key theme of many of my articles is helping the poker eco system and protecting recreational players, I wouldn't not attack them personally or as a whole nor do i disregard them at all.

Nonetheless, the interpretation of what i wrote doesn't mirror my views and i should have selected my words more carefully. I whole heatedly apologies for this. I'm really not an arrogant person, anyone who knows me or has watched me on Twitch or anything else will hopefully know this.

I have massive respect for the entire poker community, at all levels, and I'd actually argue that the speed the game is evolving is evidence that  there are few 'morons' in the game. I simply didn't consdier my wrods correctly, nor did I  assume (nor do i believe) that every non recreational player would consider them part of the "rando moron" classification (again hate this choice of wording). What I meant was that there are a few clueless players, that probably have no chance of winning, and this add value to the main event.

recreational player, amateur, inexperienced player or any other player that has some idea what they are doing do not equal what i was trying to describe as a "poker moron".

again sorry for anyne who took offence. Please accept my apologies.... I'm not an arrogant tosser... honest!

reg the expenses thing. I initially only included it because i didn't want to seem arrogant and had seen it elsewhere. it felt like fair justification for me, and that's something i do consider when ii buy action.... but I can see some valid points of its irrelevance. I initially I didn't want to seem like a cocky twat by saying "oh i think i have a 50% roi at the main so I'm selling at 1.25" and as it's somethign I considered when i bought action at mark up in the past form people, I just assumed people would think along the same lines as me.

Again, sorry if I've ruffled a few feathers, my initial intentions where to add a constructive post of how i justified both buying and selling at mark up in my own head.


Dan

[DungBeetle]

Urghhh I really feel like i need to clarity something. I in no way meant to offend anyone or make out that the whole poker community were morons. I don't think or believe this. My use of 'rando morons' was directed at a the clueless peole that don't think about what they are doing and just click buttons. This only in referred to the main event and the complete newbees that you wouldn't get in any other 10k tourney and i meant it in a way of poining out 'dead money' and value, rather than offending people.

Anyone that knows me will know that i wouldn't have meant offence by this at all. A key theme of many of my articles is helping the poker eco system and protecting recreational players, I wouldn't not attack them personally or as a whole nor do i disregard them at all.

Nonetheless, the interpretation of what i wrote doesn't mirror my views and i should have selected my words more carefully. I whole heatedly apologise for this. I'm really not an arrogant person, anyone who knows me or has watched me on Twitch or anything else will hopefully know this.

I have massive respect for the entire poker community, at all levels, and I'd actually argue that the speed the game is eveolving is evidence that  there are few 'morons' in the game. I simply didn't consdier my wrods correctly, nor did I  assume that every non recreational player would consider them part of the "rando moron" classification (again hate this choice of wording). What I meant was that there are a few clueless players, that probably have no chance of winning, and this add value.

again sorry for anyne who took offence. Please accept my apologies.... I'm not an arrogant tosser... honest!

reg the expenses thing. I initially only included it because i didn't want to seem arrogant and had seen it elsewhere. it felt like fair justification for me, and that's something i do consider when ii buy action.... but I can see some valid points of its irrelevance. I initially I didn't want to seem like a cocky twat by saying "oh i think i have a 50% roi at the main so I'm selling at 1.25" and as it's somethign I considered when i bought action at mark up in the past form people, I just assumed people would think along the same lines as me.

Again, sorry if I've ruffled a few feathers, my initial intentions where to add a constructive post of how i justified both buying and selling at mark up in my own head.

Dan

****

Anyhow - where do I buy at spot?

[SuuPRlim]

Poker is the only sector where credit risk is seemingly completely ignored.

DING DING DING!!!

I used to try change things, then i realised the game as we know it is long gone, Dan's not done anything wrong just could have thought a second longer before typing, meh no-ones gotten hurt.

I realised a couple of years ago that actually the main event is a pretty terrible event to buy %'s in th open market, for a few reasons;
.
1. It's a pretty soft $10,000 event, and the top prize is in excess of $8,000,000 - the top 20% of the field wouldn't sell for love nor money.
    1a. So most people who sell for the event are either
          i) Under it financially and a little desperate
          ii) just spent 6 weeks in Vegas doing their brains and tilting, I personally can vouch for how that will damage your mindset for a 9 day extremely deep structured tournament.
          iii) Highly under-rolled for $10k's and inexperienced in tournaments like this, and playing for these stakes.

2. People wildly misjudge how soft the field is, people seem to think it's a tournament where you get sat down on a table with 3 texas oil barons, 3 farmers from Utah and a hedgefund guy who'll be trading stocks and shares on his ipad and then donk off his $10k and go to bacarrat. This is simply not true, not true at all.

The value in this tournament comes from;
          i) Running sick with table draws
          ii) The depth of the structure
          iii) Field has so many players uncomfortable at this level and this type of comp - and a lot of pro's included in this.

3. you get charged through the roof for it. 40-100% extra usually.

The ametuer players in this comp usually are just in for the main event, as a treat for themselves or qualified - they are fresh, not hungover and playing absolute A-Game, with no wrecklessness at all, yes a few players who have a close to 0 chance of cashing the event, but the vast majority of the ameteur field really do have it in them to make a deep run, and when you get deep thats where the top players advantages come in, as the stakes gets super high, pressure builds and intense focus is needed... unfortunately most of the guys selling at 1.4 on FB/2+2 have no way to prove their going to be any good here either, and you can look at the last 100 left in the last 3 main events, usually pretty tough field. Throw into this the fact that most of the guys selling for this event at 1.5 are doing so after a 5 week stint in LV - and anyone who's done a 5 week stint in LV knows how hard that can fuck with your head.

Basically buying in the main event is a;

S   -
U  P
P  U
E  N
R  T
=
A massive high variance gamble that you get charged heavily for, you have no idea whats really +EV, whats 0EV, whats a great bet or a terribble bet. It's just that if you hit it hard you get the lot.

***IMPORTANT TO NOTE***

I'm talking about open market place selling.

It's like betting sports, if you're betting Ronnie O'Sullivan in the snooker because you know he's good at snooker, you're likely not getting the best of it...

if you're betting Ronnie because a friend told you his best mate knows Ronnie's next door neighbour and he said they guy's been playing incredible and practising every day, then you're well within your rights to have a punt at it

If you're betting because your best mate is a Pro snooker player and has been practising with Ronnie and told you he's in a great place and playing sick, well now you can get weighed in and be loving it.

Pretty much everyone though buys on fairly irellevant data and reputations.

[The Camel]

Poker is the only sector where credit risk is seemingly completely ignored.

DING DING DING!!!

I used to try change things, then i realised the game as we know it is long gone, Dan's not done anything wrong just could have thought a second longer before typing, meh no-ones gotten hurt.

I realised a couple of years ago that actually the main event is a pretty terrible event to buy %'s in th open market, for a few reasons;
.
1. It's a pretty soft $10,000 event, and the top prize is in excess of $8,000,000 - the top 20% of the field wouldn't sell for love nor money.
    1a. So most people who sell for the event are either
          i) Under it financially and a little desperate
          ii) just spent 6 weeks in Vegas doing their brains and tilting, I personally can vouch for how that will damage your mindset for a 9 day extremely deep structured tournament.
          iii) Highly under-rolled for $10k's and inexperienced in tournaments like this, and playing for these stakes.

2. People wildly misjudge how soft the field is, people seem to think it's a tournament where you get sat down on a table with 3 texas oil barons, 3 farmers from Utah and a hedgefund guy who'll be trading stocks and shares on his ipad and then donk off his $10k and go to bacarrat. This is simply not true, not true at all.

The value in this tournament comes from;
          i) Running sick with table draws
          ii) The depth of the structure
          iii) Field has so many players uncomfortable at this level and this type of comp - and a lot of pro's included in this.

3. you get charged through the roof for it. 40-100% extra usually.

The ametuer players in this comp usually are just in for the main event, as a treat for themselves or qualified - they are fresh, not hungover and playing absolute A-Game, with no wrecklessness at all, yes a few players who have a close to 0 chance of cashing the event, but the vast majority of the ameteur field really do have it in them to make a deep run, and when you get deep thats where the top players advantages come in, as the stakes gets super high, pressure builds and intense focus is needed... unfortunately most of the guys selling at 1.4 on FB/2+2 have no way to prove their going to be any good here either, and you can look at the last 100 left in the last 3 main events, usually pretty tough field. Throw into this the fact that most of the guys selling for this event at 1.5 are doing so after a 5 week stint in LV - and anyone who's done a 5 week stint in LV knows how hard that can fuck with your head.

Basically buying in the main event is a;

S   -
U  P
P  U
E  N
R  T
=
A massive high variance gamble that you get charged heavily for, you have no idea whats really +EV, whats 0EV, whats a great bet or a terribble bet. It's just that if you hit it hard you get the lot.

***IMPORTANT TO NOTE***

I'm talking about open market place selling.

It's like betting sports, if you're betting Ronnie O'Sullivan in the snooker because you know he's good at snooker, you're likely not getting the best of it...

if you're betting Ronnie because a friend told you his best mate knows Ronnie's next door neighbour and he said they guy's been playing incredible and practising every day, then you're well within your rights to have a punt at it

If you're betting because your best mate is a Pro snooker player and has been practising with Ronnie and told you he's in a great place and playing sick, well now you can get weighed in and be loving it.

Pretty much everyone though buys on fairly irellevant data and reputations.

Super post young David.

I will say the year I went deep in the main event (barg obv) I had a ridiculously easy Day 1 table, with players there exactly as you describe don't exist.

In fact apart from a couple of hours will David Benefield on my left during day 3, I didn't have another decent player with position on methe whole time I was in. And on Day 5 I got moved to a table where there were 5 or 6 super soft spots.

However, the last 3 or 4 times I played the main, I was on super tough tables throughout. And I believe the "easiest event of the year" claim is an absolute myth.

To such an extent that I doubt I'll ever play the main event again.