Official cryptocurrency thread (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Altcoin)

[bergeroo]

 As someone who has transferred $100,000 worth of value to another person instantly in another country (on a Sunday when banks were closed, no less), I am confident that you will not succeed in this demonstration.

Isn't this bollocks tho?  Isn't bitcoin crap at transmitting?  Doesn't it take too long and cost too much?  (Apart from the point that transmitting traditional money could also be exceptionally easy but for various regulatory issues).

You can use something like Litecoin - will likely cost about 25p (although never done that much obv) and take half an hour.

[DropTheHammer]

But that's assuming you already have the $100k in litecoin, if you need to get it into an exchange first that will take a while!

For anyone not aware of what's happening right now there is a serious downwards price correction going on. My portfolio is 38% down on its peak valuation, which was Friday! Must be squeaky bum time for those with chunks invested. A good time for anyone not currently invested to get in cheaply.

[Doobs]

Largely the mainstream media is terrified of crypto. Mainstream media outlets are by and large owned by very rich old white men who are very happy with the status quo which has got them to where they are today. Mainstream media outlets would like to protect the way things are. They don't want a new technology to come in and disrupt and change things drastically. They produce sensationalist articles and play into people's existing confirmation biases. Also note how people who have made a lot of money out of crypto are also ridiculed in the mainstream press - as if that kind of person doesn't deserve to become successful and rich. Decentralised money and the separation of state and money are coming and ten years on from the financial sector being bailed out by world governments, they are now afraid of the speed and the growth of crpyto. Of course what they'd like more than anything is to get in on the action themselves and leverage a position where banks and big business make all the money and get all the benefits.

This is an excellent point.  I've been spending quite a lot of time learning about Crypto and it is does feel to me that there is some kind of agenda in the MSM.  The recent big Crypto stories have been that they are eating up huge amounts of energy and Mr Buffett's comments, mainly in the negative.  I think a lot of it is due to the journalists not really understanding what they are writing about, much like how when a big poker story goes mainstream.

It is a bubble; like the dot com one.  But after that burst no one stopped using the internet, and internet based companies are now valued at even more than their counterparts of the early 2000s.

Sadly I can't be really be an active investor right now, but this is still a technology that is in its infancy and I think it is a prudent measure for anyone to take the time to really try and understand what is going on.  Blockchain is not going away.

Naval is probably my favourite speaker on the technology as a whole and this is a really good and quick watch about the technology.

https://twitter.com/GoldmanSachs/status/951906924240531458

Hey Ryan hows it going?

Interesting comments you make about mainstream media, and I have to say as an active investor during the late 90s I disagree with the comments about rich white men happy with the current status quo. It is not in the media's interest to go against a fad, and that's exactly cryptocurrencies are.

If anything, the media are responsible both now and in the 90s for ramping up the price of each asset to unsustainable levels. When a Daily Mail reader hears about people making millions from buying and holding a basket of coins within a matter of months/a few years, naturally FOMO is going to kick in.

Personally, I take the MSM with a pinch of salt, as I also do the same with reddit. You will learn more on Bloomberg/CNBC about cryptos and get more balanced opinions from their guest analysts ( both for and against).

We work with a few publishers, and while I'd always agree with anyone who suggests that journalists don't usually know much about they're writing about, the idea that anyone is 'terrified' of crypto is pretty laughable.

The publishers we work with, and I'm guessing most of the media, are terrified about the World Wide Web and data protection laws - they're the only things that can damage them.

I noticed Kodak jumped on the bandwagon to say they're going to use blockchain technology to help protect artists rights. This is more the kind of future I'd envision for crypto - i.e. an existing company finding some way to use the technology to their benefit.

What isn't clear yet is whether blockchain technology is actually any better than existing technology - what Kodak is planning, can already be done. Their product has to actually be better than the alternatives for it to help keep blockchain technology relevant. If it is actually better then I wouldn't be surprised if Apple, Google, Amazon and the banks found a way to utilize it in some way - but I haven't seen any concrete example of how this is the case yet.

Great article here about this. It's like in the 90s when you added the name .com to your company and watched the share price rocket. Long Island Iced Tea company changes its name to Long Blockchain and the share price of a loss-making company shoots up 289%, really!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-10/a-fool-s-bet-maybe-but-sharks-fuel-crypto-mania-stock-rallies

The more I read about blockchain, the more similarities I see with the tech boom/bust.

Didn't you come on here recommending Online Blockchain, or whatever the advfn linked company was called?

I have a memory of some crappy little company from the dot.com days.  I can't remember the name of it, but it went through numerous different name changes to reflect whatever was hot right then.  So one week they planned to run a hedge fund, planned to be a technology broker, etc etc.  Each time they needed to raise money to take advantage of the bew opportunity.  The real purpose of the company seemed to be to keep raising finances to pay the generous director fees.  I used to post a lot on financial websites and they kept cropping up as a buy rec under different names.  When you clicked through and discovered it was the same company again, it was like an early version of been rick-rolled.

Wouln't surprise me at all if it turned out Online Blockchain was related in some way and they were right now planning to release some shiny new rickcoin. 

Never going to give you up, never going to let you down...

Love this video that explains the current crypto situation perfectly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

[nirvana]

But that's assuming you already have the $100k in litecoin, if you need to get it into an exchange first that will take a while!

For anyone not aware of what's happening right now there is a serious downwards price correction going on. My portfolio is 38% down on its peak valuation, which was Friday! Must be squeaky bum time for those with chunks invested. A good time for anyone not currently invested to get in cheaply.

Good time to use investor cliché number 23. "Don't catch falling knives" blah

[Whollyflush]

But that's assuming you already have the $100k in litecoin, if you need to get it into an exchange first that will take a while!

For anyone not aware of what's happening right now there is a serious downwards price correction going on. My portfolio is 38% down on its peak valuation, which was Friday! Must be squeaky bum time for those with chunks invested. A good time for anyone not currently invested to get in cheaply.

what are you holding? tron verge and XRP? :S sucks for you though

[SuuPRlim]

think we're gonna see plenty more utter mayhem in the bitcoin streets, small immature market and people can fuck with it really hard.

Even I, tiny little me, when selling bitcoins locally in countries we work in have managed to crash national markets by $500~ just by selling 10, I don't really understand markets that well so not sure how but with the futures options along with the current volitility of the thing I'm sure someone with plenty of capital and a good knowledge of how these things work could cause utter chaos if they so chose to and thought it was worth their time.

[acegooner]

Largely the mainstream media is terrified of crypto. Mainstream media outlets are by and large owned by very rich old white men who are very happy with the status quo which has got them to where they are today. Mainstream media outlets would like to protect the way things are. They don't want a new technology to come in and disrupt and change things drastically. They produce sensationalist articles and play into people's existing confirmation biases. Also note how people who have made a lot of money out of crypto are also ridiculed in the mainstream press - as if that kind of person doesn't deserve to become successful and rich. Decentralised money and the separation of state and money are coming and ten years on from the financial sector being bailed out by world governments, they are now afraid of the speed and the growth of crpyto. Of course what they'd like more than anything is to get in on the action themselves and leverage a position where banks and big business make all the money and get all the benefits.

This is an excellent point.  I've been spending quite a lot of time learning about Crypto and it is does feel to me that there is some kind of agenda in the MSM.  The recent big Crypto stories have been that they are eating up huge amounts of energy and Mr Buffett's comments, mainly in the negative.  I think a lot of it is due to the journalists not really understanding what they are writing about, much like how when a big poker story goes mainstream.

It is a bubble; like the dot com one.  But after that burst no one stopped using the internet, and internet based companies are now valued at even more than their counterparts of the early 2000s.

Sadly I can't be really be an active investor right now, but this is still a technology that is in its infancy and I think it is a prudent measure for anyone to take the time to really try and understand what is going on.  Blockchain is not going away.

Naval is probably my favourite speaker on the technology as a whole and this is a really good and quick watch about the technology.

https://twitter.com/GoldmanSachs/status/951906924240531458

Hey Ryan hows it going?

Interesting comments you make about mainstream media, and I have to say as an active investor during the late 90s I disagree with the comments about rich white men happy with the current status quo. It is not in the media's interest to go against a fad, and that's exactly cryptocurrencies are.

If anything, the media are responsible both now and in the 90s for ramping up the price of each asset to unsustainable levels. When a Daily Mail reader hears about people making millions from buying and holding a basket of coins within a matter of months/a few years, naturally FOMO is going to kick in.

Personally, I take the MSM with a pinch of salt, as I also do the same with reddit. You will learn more on Bloomberg/CNBC about cryptos and get more balanced opinions from their guest analysts ( both for and against).

We work with a few publishers, and while I'd always agree with anyone who suggests that journalists don't usually know much about they're writing about, the idea that anyone is 'terrified' of crypto is pretty laughable.

The publishers we work with, and I'm guessing most of the media, are terrified about the World Wide Web and data protection laws - they're the only things that can damage them.

I noticed Kodak jumped on the bandwagon to say they're going to use blockchain technology to help protect artists rights. This is more the kind of future I'd envision for crypto - i.e. an existing company finding some way to use the technology to their benefit.

What isn't clear yet is whether blockchain technology is actually any better than existing technology - what Kodak is planning, can already be done. Their product has to actually be better than the alternatives for it to help keep blockchain technology relevant. If it is actually better then I wouldn't be surprised if Apple, Google, Amazon and the banks found a way to utilize it in some way - but I haven't seen any concrete example of how this is the case yet.

Great article here about this. It's like in the 90s when you added the name .com to your company and watched the share price rocket. Long Island Iced Tea company changes its name to Long Blockchain and the share price of a loss-making company shoots up 289%, really!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-10/a-fool-s-bet-maybe-but-sharks-fuel-crypto-mania-stock-rallies

The more I read about blockchain, the more similarities I see with the tech boom/bust.

Didn't you come on here recommending Online Blockchain, or whatever the advfn linked company was called?

I have a memory of some crappy little company from the dot.com days.  I can't remember the name of it, but it went through numerous different name changes to reflect whatever was hot right then.  So one week they planned to run a hedge fund, planned to be a technology broker, etc etc.  Each time they needed to raise money to take advantage of the bew opportunity.  The real purpose of the company seemed to be to keep raising finances to pay the generous director fees.  I used to post a lot on financial websites and they kept cropping up as a buy rec under different names.  When you clicked through and discovered it was the same company again, it was like an early version of been rick-rolled.

Wouln't surprise me at all if it turned out Online Blockchain was related in some way and they were right now planning to release some shiny new rickcoin. 

Never going to give you up, never going to let you down...

Love this video that explains the current crypto situation perfectly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

I never ever recommend stocks on forums, only specify what I have done with my portfolio. I still hold online blockchain plc, but it represents the punty part of my portfolio, less than .5%. I also have held but now sold BTC  and ETH trackers. All these where traded prior to the futures markets opening up at the end of Dec.

There's a big difference between a tech company moving into the blockchain space versus a drinks or a photography firm.

[DropTheHammer]

But that's assuming you already have the $100k in litecoin, if you need to get it into an exchange first that will take a while!

For anyone not aware of what's happening right now there is a serious downwards price correction going on. My portfolio is 38% down on its peak valuation, which was Friday! Must be squeaky bum time for those with chunks invested. A good time for anyone not currently invested to get in cheaply.

what are you holding? tron verge and XRP? :S sucks for you though

In order of amount value:

Litecoin
Eos
BitCoin
Ethereum
Dash
Neo
Ripple
Icon
Cardano
Luxcoin
Monero
Vechain
Pirl
Nuls
UBIQ
PIVX
Loopring
Aion
Verge
Buzzcoin
Time new bank
Oyster Pearl

[acegooner]

But that's assuming you already have the $100k in litecoin, if you need to get it into an exchange first that will take a while!

For anyone not aware of what's happening right now there is a serious downwards price correction going on. My portfolio is 38% down on its peak valuation, which was Friday! Must be squeaky bum time for those with chunks invested. A good time for anyone not currently invested to get in cheaply.

If you don't like your fingers I guess.

[lucky_scrote]

I think the last 24h has proved that all the utterly shit coins out there will go to zero when and if the mighty crash happens/bubble bursts.

[byronkincaid]

What do you guys think about these XBT Provider BitCoin and Ethereum Trackers? 2.5% a year fees but no CGT if you put it in a SIPP.

http://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/x/xbt-provider-ab-bitcoin-tracker-eur

http://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/x/xbt-provider-ab-ethereum-tracker-eur

https://coinshares.co.uk/exchange-traded-products/

[SuperJez]

What do you guys think about these XBT Provider BitCoin and Ethereum Trackers? 2.5% a year fees but no CGT if you put it in a SIPP.

http://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/x/xbt-provider-ab-bitcoin-tracker-eur

http://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/x/xbt-provider-ab-ethereum-tracker-eur

https://coinshares.co.uk/exchange-traded-products/

I would find out exactly how the price tracking is done (synthetic or physical).  It's most likely synthetic which will introduce bigger counterparty risks than on your bog standard passive funds.  I also wonder how exactly they handle hard forks (there have been several in the last 6 months for bitcoin where owners got bitcoin cash/gold tokens for free plus other borderline scam ones) or airdrops for ethereum.

If you want to invest in these things imo just hold the real thing in a hardware wallet and keep good records for any CGT gains you make above the annual allowance.

[acegooner]

What do you guys think about these XBT Provider BitCoin and Ethereum Trackers? 2.5% a year fees but no CGT if you put it in a SIPP.

http://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/x/xbt-provider-ab-bitcoin-tracker-eur

http://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/x/xbt-provider-ab-ethereum-tracker-eur

https://coinshares.co.uk/exchange-traded-products/

I would find out exactly how the price tracking is done (synthetic or physical).  It's most likely synthetic which will introduce bigger counterparty risks than on your bog standard passive funds.  I also wonder how exactly they handle hard forks (there have been several in the last 6 months for bitcoin where owners got bitcoin cash/gold tokens for free plus other borderline scam ones) or airdrops for ethereum.

If you want to invest in these things imo just hold the real thing in a hardware wallet and keep good records for any CGT gains you make above the annual allowance.
[/quote

Some interesting stats just come up on CNBC this morning, if you had put $10,000 into BTC you would today even after the latest correction be sitting on an asset worth $426,000.  Given the CGT allowance is only £11,300, why expose yourself to such a large tax bill. A SIPP is a very good place to hold a Bitcoin ETN, if your intention is to hold this asset with a view to saving for retirement.

The volatility of bitcoin means that tracking errors are inevitable, but personally when it comes to counterparty risks I trust a company like HL much more than coinbase to protect the underlying value of my assets. They will have carried out due dilliegence before allowing a tracker fund to be promoted through their platform. HL are also FCA regulated, Coinbase is not SEC registered as far as I am aware.

[SuperJez]

It's not HL who are taking on the counterparty risk, which for something as unusual and volatile as bitcoin or ethereum must be several degrees higher than an S&P tracker.  How exactly do they handle hard forks or token airdrops?  It cannot be done properly.  Just because it is listed on the HL platform does not mean its safe, you could have bought shares in Carrilion on there last week.

You also can't access money in your SIPP until your 55, enjoy that lambo in your old age!

Of course I have a SIPP and everyone should make use of these things - but it's not the best way to invest in cryptos.

[byronkincaid]

https://xbtprovider.com/news/post/xbt-provider-ab-statement-on-bitcoin-gold-fork

"The Issuer reiterates that it will do all that can practicably be done in the circumstances to maximize value for investors in its Certificates."