Changes you would implement to revive the UK

[RED-DOG]

1. Yes I probably would be as the odds of been picked are pretty good.

2. If I had killed the people that stole my van it would have been my right as they had no right to be on my land causing unnecessary danger to my family. If you come onto my property with the intent of doing wrong then be prepared to take the consequences.

I would imagine that most people who commit murder think it's justified.

[RED-DOG]

1. Yes I probably would be as the odds of been picked are pretty good.

2. If I had killed the people that stole my van it would have been my right as they had no right to be on my land causing unnecessary danger to my family. If you come onto my property with the intent of doing wrong then be prepared to take the consequences.

Is there a threshold where they would escape death? What if they stole a small garden ornament valued at less than £1?

I asked this question earlier. If I got a reply I must have missed it.

[mikeymike]

One I don't have any garden ornaments under a £1 so I cannot answer that question.

I shall however be going to renew my gun licence on Monday and whence it is done I shall have to purchase another shotgun as I gave up shooting sometime ago. I shall also be purchasing a hound dog and a rocking chair.

This little thread has sparked some debate so it will be interesting to see if those who have so far taken part will get off the fence and answer the following:

Should Peter Sutcliffe have been allowed to spend the rest of his life in prison or should his life have been terminated.

Its a simple Yes or No question

Interesting to see the response if any.

[RED-DOG]

One I don't have any garden ornaments under a £1 so I cannot answer that question.

I shall however be going to renew my gun licence on Monday and whence it is done I shall have to purchase another shotgun as I gave up shooting sometime ago. I shall also be purchasing a hound dog and a rocking chair.

This little thread has sparked some debate so it will be interesting to see if those who have so far taken part will get off the fence and answer the following:

Should Peter Sutcliffe have been allowed to spend the rest of his life in prison or should his life have been terminated.

Its a simple Yes or No question

Interesting to see the response if any.

His life should have been terminated in my opinion. Now will you have the decency to answer my question?

If the theft of a van justifies mass murder, at the theft of what object do you draw the line?

PS- You don't actually have to own the item to have an opinion.

[Longines]

Should Peter Sutcliffe have been allowed to spend the rest of his life in prison

Yes.

A question for you, which of these justify your right to kill the offender:

1) 5 guys steal your van
2) 5 guys open the door of your van
3) a child opens the door of your van
4) a guy steals your wheelie bin
5) a child steals your wheelie bin
6) a child steals a flower from your garden

They're simple Yes or No questions

[Woodsey]

If you want to go down this route I think US style trespassing laws are suited better than the size of what you nick tbh.....

[kukushkin88]

One I don't have any garden ornaments under a £1 so I cannot answer that question.

I shall however be going to renew my gun licence on Monday and whence it is done I shall have to purchase another shotgun as I gave up shooting sometime ago. I shall also be purchasing a hound dog and a rocking chair.

This little thread has sparked some debate so it will be interesting to see if those who have so far taken part will get off the fence and answer the following:

Should Peter Sutcliffe have been allowed to spend the rest of his life in prison or should his life have been terminated.

Its a simple Yes or No question

Interesting to see the response if any.

Strange that you frame it as controversial, in a country that rejected the death penalty so long ago. You haven't asked a yes or no question. He should live the rest of his life in prison.

About that threshold for murdering the van thieves, is there one? It's silly to avoid the question on the basis that you don't have an inexpensive garden ornament.

[Longines]

If you want to go down this route I think US style trespassing laws are suited better than the size of what you nick tbh.....

Sounds reasonable.

Further, uncultivated and unenclosed land with signs forbidding trespass “at intervals not less than three to the mile along all exterior roads and trails entering the land” is also considered trespassing. Offenders of the same land or contiguous of the same landowner are fined $75, $250 and charged with a misdemeanor for first, second and third offenses respectively.

[Woodsey]

If you want to go down this route I think US style trespassing laws are suited better than the size of what you nick tbh.....

Sounds reasonable.

Further, uncultivated and unenclosed land with signs forbidding trespass “at intervals not less than three to the mile along all exterior roads and trails entering the land” is also considered trespassing. Offenders of the same land or contiguous of the same landowner are fined $75, $250 and charged with a misdemeanor for first, second and third offenses respectively.

You can also shoot people in self defence if the threat to yourself is high enough....

[RED-DOG]

If you want to go down this route I think US style trespassing laws are suited better than the size of what you nick tbh.....

Sounds reasonable.

Further, uncultivated and unenclosed land with signs forbidding trespass “at intervals not less than three to the mile along all exterior roads and trails entering the land” is also considered trespassing. Offenders of the same land or contiguous of the same landowner are fined $75, $250 and charged with a misdemeanor for first, second and third offenses respectively.

You can also shoot people in self defence if the threat to yourself is high enough....

I think that goes beyond trespass. I also think you can shoot people here if the threat to yourself is high enough.

[RED-DOG]

Should Peter Sutcliffe have been allowed to spend the rest of his life in prison

Yes.

A question for you, which of these justify your right to kill the offender:

1) 5 guys steal your van
2) 5 guys open the door of your van
3) a child opens the door of your van
4) a guy steals your wheelie bin
5) a child steals your wheelie bin
6) a child steals a flower from your garden

They're simple Yes or No questions

It doesn't look like Mikey is going to answer this question no matter how we phrase it.

I don't think he wanted a debate, I just think he wanted to let us know what would happen if we touch his stuff.

C'mon Mikey, lighten up, I just know I would like you in real life.

[Jon MW]

If you want to go down this route I think US style trespassing laws are suited better than the size of what you nick tbh.....

Sounds reasonable.

Further, uncultivated and unenclosed land with signs forbidding trespass “at intervals not less than three to the mile along all exterior roads and trails entering the land” is also considered trespassing. Offenders of the same land or contiguous of the same landowner are fined $75, $250 and charged with a misdemeanor for first, second and third offenses respectively.

You can also shoot people in self defence if the threat to yourself is high enough....

I think that goes beyond trespass. I also think you can shoot people here if the threat to yourself is high enough.

I think the laws Woodsey is referring to are the States who have legalised shooting trespassers on the assumption that any trespasser may be armed and might harm you - regardless of whether they are armed, or whether they know you're there, or whether they do anything threatening or - as was the case that got it publicised - whether you you wait overnight in your outbuilding with a shotgun and open fire as soon as you see anyone no matter the reason why they were there.

It's similar to what I suggested - the idea that killing someone is a proportionate response to burglary (or vandalism, or theft) is a very American one and possibly relates somewhat to the gun problem they have.

[RED-DOG]

If you want to go down this route I think US style trespassing laws are suited better than the size of what you nick tbh.....

Sounds reasonable.

Further, uncultivated and unenclosed land with signs forbidding trespass “at intervals not less than three to the mile along all exterior roads and trails entering the land” is also considered trespassing. Offenders of the same land or contiguous of the same landowner are fined $75, $250 and charged with a misdemeanor for first, second and third offenses respectively.

You can also shoot people in self defence if the threat to yourself is high enough....

I think that goes beyond trespass. I also think you can shoot people here if the threat to yourself is high enough.

I think the laws Woodsey is referring to are the States who have legalised shooting trespassers on the assumption that any trespasser may be armed and might harm you - regardless of whether they are armed, or whether they know you're there, or whether they do anything threatening or - as was the case that got it publicised - whether you you wait overnight in your outbuilding with a shotgun and open fire as soon as you see anyone no matter the reason why they were there.

It's similar to what I suggested - the idea that killing someone is a proportionate response to burglary (or vandalism, or theft) is a very American one and possibly relates somewhat to the gun problem they have.

Surely those can't be the laws that Woodsey thinks are better though?

[kukushkin88]

There's a clear irony when people vote Conservative, with continued austerity in their election manifesto and then complain when crimes aren't investigated.

[nirvana]

If you want to go down this route I think US style trespassing laws are suited better than the size of what you nick tbh.....

Sounds reasonable.

Further, uncultivated and unenclosed land with signs forbidding trespass “at intervals not less than three to the mile along all exterior roads and trails entering the land” is also considered trespassing. Offenders of the same land or contiguous of the same landowner are fined $75, $250 and charged with a misdemeanor for first, second and third offenses respectively.

You can also shoot people in self defence if the threat to yourself is high enough....

In certain states you don't have to believe there is a threat - if they're in yr house, exterminate