COVID19

[Woodsey]

No one was complaining that the only factory on earth that made nasal swabs was situated in the northern Italy, its ability to produce was limited by events. Who’re knew that so much PPE was made in Hubei.

Not the general public, but there are people whose job it is to know such things and to highlight the risk of too much sourcing being from one place.

Aye.....much like the people who were sourcing pasta and bog roll who were likely getting it from way wider providers than PPE providers and still couldn’t cope #anotherbellendwithapoliticalslantthathasnopositivecontributiontomakewhatsoever
 

[MintTrav]

No one was complaining that the only factory on earth that made nasal swabs was situated in the northern Italy, its ability to produce was limited by events. Who’re knew that so much PPE was made in Hubei.

Not the general public, but there are people whose job it is to know such things and to highlight the risk of too much sourcing being from one place.

Aye.....much like the people who were sourcing pasta and bog roll who were likely getting it from way wider providers than PPE providers and still couldn’t cope #anotherbellendwithapoliticalslantthathasnopositivecontributiontomakewhatsoever
 

You’re such an idiot. There was nothing political about that post at all. I was referring to civil servants in the Department of Health.

[kukushkin88]

An update on the NHS Trust telling docs not to put Covid on death certificates:

https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/

[Jon MW]

An update on the NHS Trust telling docs not to put Covid on death certificates:

https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/

.

Like I said in my original response the odd thing was that it didn't quite match the national guidelines. Given that the job of a doctor is to put down what they think are the most likely causes of death on the death certificates I suspect that the investigation will find no material difference was made

Edit: and as a reminder, the trusts guidance didn't instruct them not to put COVID19 down, it passively noted that they weren't required to put it down

[kukushkin88]

An update on the NHS Trust telling docs not to put Covid on death certificates:

https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/

.

Like I said in my original response the odd thing was that it didn't quite match the national guidelines. Given that the job of a doctor is to put down what they think are the most likely causes of death on the death certificates I suspect that the investigation will find no material difference was made

Edit: and as a reminder, the trusts guidance didn't instruct them not to put COVID19 down, it passively noted that they weren't required to put it down

In guidance that was specific to deaths where Covid was proven, they said Covid did not need to be mentioned on the death certificate. They accept fully, that they were wrong. Add in the fact that the GLP indicate that the situation was brought to their attention by someone within the trust who was concerned that deaths were being certified incorrectly and I think we can safely say it’s not as clear cut as you suggest. Let’s wait and see what the investigation finds.

There’s no reason to think it’s linked but I noticed that yesterday Barking put up 70 extra Covid deaths, which was a bit out of the blue on the trends.

Edit: and as a reminder. We are clear from the actuary reports that a lot of Covid deaths are being missed, so instances like this are of some interest.

[kukushkin88]

An update on the NHS Trust telling docs not to put Covid on death certificates:

https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/

.

Like I said in my original response the odd thing was that it didn't quite match the national guidelines. Given that the job of a doctor is to put down what they think are the most likely causes of death on the death certificates I suspect that the investigation will find no material difference was made

Edit: and as a reminder, the trusts guidance didn't instruct them not to put COVID19 down, it passively noted that they weren't required to put it down

In guidance that was specific to deaths* where Covid was proven, they said Covid did not need to be mentioned on the death certificate. They accept fully, that they were wrong. Add in the fact that the GLP indicate that the situation was brought to their attention by someone within the trust who was concerned that deaths were being certified incorrectly and I think we can safely say it’s not as clear cut as you suggest. Let’s wait and see what the investigation finds.
There’s no reason to think it’s linked but I noticed that yesterday Barking put up 70 extra Covid deaths, which was a bit out of the blue on the trends.

Edit: and as a reminder. We are clear from the actuary reports that a lot of Covid deaths are being missed, so instances like this are of some interest.

a better edit: *In guidance that was specific to instances where it was proven that the dead person had Covid.

[Jon MW]

An update on the NHS Trust telling docs not to put Covid on death certificates:

https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/

.

Like I said in my original response the odd thing was that it didn't quite match the national guidelines. Given that the job of a doctor is to put down what they think are the most likely causes of death on the death certificates I suspect that the investigation will find no material difference was made

Edit: and as a reminder, the trusts guidance didn't instruct them not to put COVID19 down, it passively noted that they weren't required to put it down

In guidance that was specific to deaths where Covid was proven, they said Covid did not need to be mentioned on the death certificate. They accept fully, that they were wrong. Add in the fact that the GLP indicate that the situation was brought to their attention by someone within the trust who was concerned that deaths were being certified incorrectly and I think we can safely say it’s not as clear cut as you suggest. Let’s wait and see what the investigation finds.

There’s no reason to think it’s linked but I noticed that yesterday Barking put up 70 extra Covid deaths, which was a bit out of the blue on the trends.

Edit: and as a reminder. We are clear from the actuary reports that a lot of Covid deaths are being missed, so instances like this are of some interest.

I was going by the link to the guidance that was provided by the same organisation that you are linking to, if they were actually saying don't put COVID19 down when the person has tested positive for COVID19 then that's a major enquiry - but I didn't see any evidence of that from the links GLP provided.

The ONS deaths count any mention of COVID19 anywhere on the death certificate so I don't see how it would change those - I don't know if the hospital counted deaths only include what's in part 1a, which would explain a bigger number for hospital deaths if they revised it. But I still don't see what benefit an NHS trust would get from deliberately trying to under report the COVID19 numbers.

EDIT EDIT: that's a new document they're linking to now

The original document was more like a letter and didn't have that COVID19 was proved - this seems something that an external enquiry should be looking at. I still don't understand the motive.

[kukushkin88]

An update on the NHS Trust telling docs not to put Covid on death certificates:

https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/

.

Like I said in my original response the odd thing was that it didn't quite match the national guidelines. Given that the job of a doctor is to put down what they think are the most likely causes of death on the death certificates I suspect that the investigation will find no material difference was made

Edit: and as a reminder, the trusts guidance didn't instruct them not to put COVID19 down, it passively noted that they weren't required to put it down

In guidance that was specific to deaths where Covid was proven, they said Covid did not need to be mentioned on the death certificate. They accept fully, that they were wrong. Add in the fact that the GLP indicate that the situation was brought to their attention by someone within the trust who was concerned that deaths were being certified incorrectly and I think we can safely say it’s not as clear cut as you suggest. Let’s wait and see what the investigation finds.

There’s no reason to think it’s linked but I noticed that yesterday Barking put up 70 extra Covid deaths, which was a bit out of the blue on the trends.

Edit: and as a reminder. We are clear from the actuary reports that a lot of Covid deaths are being missed, so instances like this are of some interest.

I was going by the link to the guidance that was provided by the same organisation that you are linking to, if they were actually saying don't put COVID19 down when the person has tested positive for COVID19 then that's a major enquiry - but I didn't see any evidence of that from the links GLP provided.

The ONS deaths count any mention of COVID19 anywhere on the death certificate so I don't see how it would change those - I don't know if the hospital counted deaths only include what's in part 1a, which would explain a bigger number for hospital deaths if they revised it. But I still don't see what benefit an NHS trust would get from deliberately trying to under report the COVID19 numbers.

EDIT EDIT: that's a new document they're linking to now

The original document was more like a letter and didn't have that COVID19 was proved - this seems something that an external enquiry should be looking at. I still don't understand the motive.

I guess the question (and I genuinely don’t know). Is....could an NHS Trust Chief Exec be put under political pressure in the same way that civil servants within governmental departments are?

[Woodsey]

No one was complaining that the only factory on earth that made nasal swabs was situated in the northern Italy, its ability to produce was limited by events. Who’re knew that so much PPE was made in Hubei.

Not the general public, but there are people whose job it is to know such things and to highlight the risk of too much sourcing being from one place.

Aye.....much like the people who were sourcing pasta and bog roll who were likely getting it from way wider providers than PPE providers and still couldn’t cope #anotherbellendwithapoliticalslantthathasnopositivecontributiontomakewhatsoever
 

You’re such an idiot. There was nothing political about that post at all. I was referring to civil servants in the Department of Health.

Idiot or not my point still stands.......

[Woodsey]

An update on the NHS Trust telling docs not to put Covid on death certificates:

https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/

Fox killer!

[kukushkin88]

An update on the NHS Trust telling docs not to put Covid on death certificates:

https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/

Fox killer!

We’re the closest that we’ve been in years to being troll free on this forum. It’s a real shame that you keep posting.

[Woodsey]

An update on the NHS Trust telling docs not to put Covid on death certificates:

https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/

Fox killer!

We’re the closest that we’ve been in years to being troll free on this forum. It’s a real shame that you keep posting.

It’s a shame you keep posting your one eyed nonsense........did you look at who is behind that website?

[kukushkin88]

The PPE from Turkey farce:

https://www.ft.com/content/8d1522cd-d699-4902-bbce-79f220fc1e09
Cliffs: Thankfully Turkey took a charitable view of our incompetence and dishonesty.

Is it paywalled? I’m not sure, I should be able to post a link that works.

[kukushkin88]

Might be one where Doobs can provide insight. Is there a chance that we are doing a better job than all the comparable nations (and Ireland) in getting seriously unwell people from care homes to hospital?

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1253245532572712961?s=21

[MintTrav]

Might be one where Doobs can provide insight. Is there a chance that we are doing a better job than all the comparable nations (and Ireland) in getting seriously unwell people from care homes to hospital?

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1253245532572712961?s=21

It says 57% of Covid deaths in Ireland are in care homes, compared with 13-14% here. After a slow start, Ireland is in the process of testing all care home staff and patients, which should be completed around the end of this week, whereas our official policy is to test the first five victims after they have shown symptoms and try to get to a point where all those showing symptoms get tested. Do you think it’s more likely that the disparity in the percentages is because we are identifying and getting the victims into hospital quicker or because Covid-related deaths in care homes are not being counted as such?

“All care home residents and social care staff with coronavirus (COVID-19) symptoms will be tested as capacity is built up.”
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-offer-testing-for-everyone-who-needs-one-in-social-care-settings