hi/lo ?

[NoflopsHomer]

I'd move the shortstack in Hi-Lo everytime

[ifm]

The rest folded I lost when a  came on the turn and player 1 showed 

 

[TightEnd]

but my point would be without the nut flush draw he shouldn't be calling

He has a non nut draw and a gutshot straight draw


Byeee!!!

[ifm]

My point was simple, you push here you WILL get a caller EVERYTIME, that person will have a flush draw 99.9% of the time and you are only a slight favourite against a flush draw.
I rather see the turn and either get away cheaply or push there, over time i believe it to be a good policy because if you do push on the flop you lose the lot not just some of your stack, there are better oportunities (better drawing hands i mean).

[snoopy1239]

The rest folded I lost when a  came on the turn and player 1 showed 

 

You want this hand to call.

He's clearly a weak player.

If he hits, then so be it.

He put his money in with incorrect odds and a crappy hand. You will make money off these guys.

[snoopy1239]

My point was simple, you push here you WILL get a caller EVERYTIME, that person will have a flush draw 99.9% of the time and you are only a slight favourite against a flush draw.
I rather see the turn and either get away cheaply or push there, over time i believe it to be a good policy because if you do push on the flop you lose the lot not just some of your stack, there are better oportunities (better drawing hands i mean).

And how much do you win when he misses his flush? Nowt.

You can't be so negative. It should be about what you can get off these mugs, not what you can lose.

[londonpokergirl]

i'm with IFM , i'd flat call, you've only got trips, which is the nuts at that point, but if you push
they're gonna call regardless

see a turn then do it

[ifm]

And how much do you win when he misses his flush? Nowt.

You can't be so negative. It should be about what you can get off these mugs, not what you can lose.

How much? the pot.
Not negative, realistic.
In this particular instance it was a mug, but more often than not you will get multiple callers and you will most certainly be a dog in the hand.
If you push on a horrible flop like this with only trips and no draws against multiple opponents you will lose more in the long run than you win.

[Div]

Here is question 2 if you just called the $10 on the flop would you call to see the river. If player 1 bets out $30 and you get 2 callers.

Firstly, unlucky! Your opponents choice of starting hand, and willingness to draw to a non-nut hand are both weaknesses.

Secondly, I'd definitely call to see the river in the circumstance you described.

You have 1 out to the mortal nuts (the case queen), nine other outs which will give you an almost certain high (three nines, threes, or sixes - let's not fret too much about quads), and there are 44 unseen cards, giving you roughly 7/2 to hit the high hand and scoop, plus as a parachute sixteen outs (any four, five, seven, or eight) which will get you some share of the pot - though with two callers there's a definite worry about getting quartered or worse.

There's about $38 in the pot pre-flop, $98 if you just call on the flop, and by the time it gets to you on the turn, there's $188 in giving you a very generous 6/1 to hit your 7/2 shot. Also, the pot is so large, you can set all your opponents in if they want to see your cards, so there will be no cash missed on the table.

Of course there's no guarantee that if you'd just called, he'd have underbet the pot when he hit his flush, but I've seen a lot of players do exactly what you described, and when you fill up on the river, they just can't let it go.  

[ifm]

Someone wanna post this hand on 2+2?
I bow to the ultimate wisdom.

[snoopy1239]

And how much do you win when he misses his flush? Nowt.

You can't be so negative. It should be about what you can get off these mugs, not what you can lose.

How much? the pot.

He's not going to pay you off with pocket fours.

[ifm]

there's already $98 in the pot

[Div]

You can't be so negative. It should be about what you can get off these mugs, not what you can lose.

Snoops I ran the numbers through the Cardplayer O8 calculator and the EV calculations are:

Stage	gooner	villain
Pre Flop	72	28
Flop	68	32
Turn (6 clubs)	42	58
Turn (6 diamonds)	79	21

So if goonner calls on the flop, and sees a good turn card like the six of diamonds, he is in position to push as a 4/1 favourite and there's a good chance that he will get callers. If not, he wins a near 100BB pot with minimal risk.

If he sees a bad turn card like the six of clubs, he is last to act and can make a good decision based on the betting in front, which as previously mentioned, can often still make it a valid call.

[Bongo]

he's 11% better off on the turn and less likely to get callers?

I'm confused as to why we wouldn't want to get our money in as a 2:1 favourite?

[Royal Flush]

he's 11% better off on the turn and less likely to get callers?

I'm confused as to why we wouldn't want to get our money in as a 2:1 favourite?

that makes 2 of us!

Also since when is a set a slight fave over a flush draw!

If you flat call on the flop then yes if the club comes you save chips, but if it does come and he had 99 then u lose all the action for your set, also if the card comes 89JTK you cant be happy, Ace and you dont like it much, any other card puts a low draw out.....

I am curious though to those who say flat call and push a nice turn, what is a nice turn to you in a multiway pot with Q 9 and a low on the board? (excluding the FH which kills your action)