It's time for the author of the referendum to explain that respecting its outcome doesn’t have to mean disrespecting the fundamental importance of parliament, says James Kirkup

(link: https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/its-time-david-cameron-returned-to-fix-his-brexit-mess/)

One man got to decide? But parliament decided they didn’t want the WA so who watches over them?

we get the chance at a GE to decide on who should form our parliament, at a constituency level and then in aggregate at party level

The referendum was advisory (never effectively marketed as such by the remain campaign of course, complacently), since when it has been treated as overwhelming gospel

We currently have a stand off between Parliamentary democracy and direct democracy but the former supercedes the latter.

We get a GE and elect those who profess to represent our interests

Opposition parties and all the current Brexit objectors didn’t honour their duties with their complacent, ineffectual representation pre-referendum

Then when presented with WA they once again failed to execute their duties of representation voting self interest, party interest instead

Now these same folk say it’s Boris’s Brexit and he’s failing to execute his duty to represent the interests of people and needs to be watched over.

In fact that collectively poor representation and subsequent division has ownership over Brexit imo, it is their Brexit

It's time for the author of the referendum to explain that respecting its outcome doesn’t have to mean disrespecting the fundamental importance of parliament, says James Kirkup

(link: https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/its-time-david-cameron-returned-to-fix-his-brexit-mess/)

One man got to decide? But parliament decided they didn’t want the WA so who watches over them?

Analysis of Irish trade tells us UK & US are the big two

Remain have spent so long obsessing about the oblivion that awaits UK citizens Ireland has been forgotten

When Ireland cannot trade with UK & trade with US diminishes the pain will be a very real fact. No freedom of movement, increased violence, huge disruption, economic catastrophe.

So I suggest Remain take some of that Armageddon rhetoric and apply it to Irish lives. Cos posting Wiki pages saying 95% of Ireland fist pump EU is very ridiculous.

It’s a fact that the Irish people voted against the EU in the last referendum put to them, it’s a fact that UK is a more important trading partner than EU, it’s a fact that freedom of movement & trade with UK is more vital, it’s a fact that dissatisfaction will grow post Brexit.

Putting up a wiki page saying everything is rosy is indeed making shit up

Lol Wiki is always so accurate

Being so very desperate to prove nothing remotely positive is possible is all very hilarious

Boris 5x phone calls with Trump in 18 days. Bout twice as many as Maybot in 3 years.

Polls say chunks of Irish unhappy with EU membership

It’s all just “utter nonsense”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/12/us-and-britain-could-sign-sector-by-sector-trade-deals-says-bolton

“The fashion in the EU is when the peasants vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go is to get them to vote again and again until they get it right”

The Irish can certainly relate to that

John Bolton visiting UK says USA “enthusiastically support” No Deal and that a bumper sector by sector trade deal will be a priority

Think it was last year a poll in Ireland showed 40% of population valued free trade & movement with UK over EU membership. After Brexit when we start smashing it and Ireland is drowning without those valuable luxuries that % moves into majority territory. EU crumbling to be sure to be sure.

Just saying “utter nonsense” doesn’t present viable solutions to complex problems, it’s just wah wah wahing.

Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty in their own referendum. Their relationship with EU has always been strained. Two thirds of their trade is outside EU. UK is their most vital trading partner and closest neighbour. Oh and of course Brexit will cause Irish folk to snap murder each other.

But obv they won’t give up EU membership just because they joined in 1973 (just like we did). Great point.

ok but then along came the EU and Brexit happened so a whole new reality began. Why are we looking at the past with these history lessons when it was a much simpler Ireland vs Uk coup? Cos beforehand all the violence could perhaps achieve something eg the GFI negotiated between these two parties.

But what would it achieve today with this astonishing new variable and much more complex landscape? To start all the murdering up and pressure 27 member states to capitulate to terror? Just saying it will be as per before is nuts because every aspect has changed massively compared to as per before.

Heck why don’t Ireland just feck off EU membership and hey presto no more murdering each other anymore. It’s just another unsolvable problem EU superstate dreams have created that doesn’t improve by mindless killing and throwing stones at police.

If there’s an unavoidable temporary hard border due to EU not being able to navigate a tricky negotiating spot Irish people start murdering each other. That’s the outcome we’re being told is stone cold fact?

Comprehensive in explaining past friction and tension between religious groups

What I’m really seeking is why a customs barrier would auto be the catalyst to turn friction into killings in 2019

If we are certain of this I think the EU refusing to budge on trade arrangements is curious. They don’t care if people are killed as long as principals of the union’s trade are upheld?

would be good to get greater detail on exactly why troubles are expected to flare up with a border

The prickly scumbags can just bowl across right now and cause trouble if they wish

We would be out now if the ERG leave MPs had voted for the WA.

It is simply a half arsed view to blame remainers for the mess when May took the hardest line options in her red lines , did not seek to build consensus and then leavers in parliament decided that the version of Brexit she got wasnt good enough

For the sake of fairness we have to add that Corbyns Labour did not vote in the national interest either on the WA and have been useless too.

Given the EU were OK with the WA, what red lines do you think went too far given the ref campaign and the vote to leave. Genuinely interested.

It's wrong to wholly blame remainers but I think the non-stop effort to reject the result and any form of leaving by a sizable number of MPs and millions outside parliament made sure that the bandwagon kept rolling to this point - pointlessly and unnecessarily so. Perpetually holding out the prospect of ultimately remaining was a poor effort from the people who  notionally want to be the representatives of a Govt of national unity (lol). They may win in the end - still 50:50 I think. I'll care less about the leaving or staying but will be slightly fuming inside and dismayed for the rest of my days at the shenanigans.

And this.

Let alone the damage to democracy, engagement/trust in politics and future voting, our credibility and status cowing back to EU, or negotiating with other nations, pride/identity, ability to collaborate with each other, not addressing concerns or delivering reforms. The fact that it’s happening and still the wah wahing continues. It will continue afterwards, dragging us down for what?

Remain point at the dumbass nature of voting Leave but look how MPs used their vote and the endless self-defeating whining from Remain, it’s made us a global embarrassment. Yea yea I know about the economics and the poison bum moo cows etc but still there’s been a lot of stupidness on display right across the board.

[It's a bit like choosing someone English to decorate your house even though the other option of European decorator does a better job.]

Always enjoy when I see brexit voters talking about making our own laws. They never really tell you about which laws they want to remove or add though.

It's a bit like choosing someone English to decorate your house even though the other option of European decorator does a better job. 

It’s absolutely nothing like that.

This.

Key word is choose. Cos the English decorator offers you a choice of colours. But the continental chappie thinks fuck ur magnolia and paints everything terracotta instead.