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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 2180217 times)
TightEnd
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« Reply #19665 on: August 12, 2019, 11:12:50 AM »

Ireland tells Boris Johnson there will be no backstop renegotiation. Irish government says there is no prospect of rethink in Brexit stalemate

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/11/ireland-tells-boris-johnson-there-will-be-no-backstop-renegotiation


Boris and Varadkhar meet this week
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« Reply #19666 on: August 12, 2019, 11:14:22 AM »

"The backstop is not only anti-democratic, it is a monstrosity that would make us a European colony and quite possibly destroy the Union," writes Nick Timothy

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/11/shelving-backstop-will-not-enough-must-also-avoid-fatal-trap/

(The backstop only kicks in if there is no agreement as to how the border will work. The whole argument from Brexiteers is that such an agreement will be straightforward and definitely happen. So why do they care about the backstop (unless they don’t believe their own position)?
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« Reply #19667 on: August 12, 2019, 11:34:29 AM »

Another cheerful day on blonde 
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« Reply #19668 on: August 12, 2019, 11:53:17 AM »

Former Northern Ireland Secretary tells Crick that troubles in Northern Ireland will return with No Deal Brexit

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/michael-crick-ireland-troubles-no-deal-brexit/


I really don't get this shit.

We have several Irish in our office from both sides of the border. Neither see any reason for this. What actually changes to prompt people to want to fight again, after peace for so long.....bar of course the media and remainers actually courting it........
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« Reply #19669 on: August 12, 2019, 12:56:49 PM »

Former Northern Ireland Secretary tells Crick that troubles in Northern Ireland will return with No Deal Brexit

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/michael-crick-ireland-troubles-no-deal-brexit/


I really don't get this shit.

We have several Irish in our office from both sides of the border. Neither see any reason for this. What actually changes to prompt people to want to fight again, after peace for so long.....bar of course the media and remainers actually courting it........

no one is courting it. Plenty of people worried about the risk of troubles re-emerging if the border situation changes.
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« Reply #19670 on: August 12, 2019, 01:13:49 PM »

Former Northern Ireland Secretary tells Crick that troubles in Northern Ireland will return with No Deal Brexit

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/michael-crick-ireland-troubles-no-deal-brexit/


I really don't get this shit.

We have several Irish in our office from both sides of the border. Neither see any reason for this. What actually changes to prompt people to want to fight again, after peace for so long.....bar of course the media and remainers actually courting it........

They already are fighting again - there was violence at Loyalist bonfires last month and two people stabbed at a Republican one on Thursday night.

There are still enough prickly scumbags on both sides to kick it all off again
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« Reply #19671 on: August 12, 2019, 01:30:24 PM »

would be good to get greater detail on exactly why troubles are expected to flare up with a border

The prickly scumbags can just bowl across right now and cause trouble if they wish
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« Reply #19672 on: August 12, 2019, 01:44:35 PM »

I will have a go

As far as the EU is concerned, Northern Ireland is part of the UK. If Britain is left with no-deal after the Brexit deadline passes, Northern Ireland is in the same boat.

The Republic of Ireland are part of the EU in their own right as a sovereign nation. So if Northern Ireland fell back on WTO rules, a new customs barrier would suddenly spring up across the Ireland-Northern Ireland border.

This creates a big issue. The Good Friday Agreement dictates that people and trade must flow freely between Northern and the Republic of Ireland.

A no-deal would break that agreement, and there would suddenly be a more palpable division between the north and south.

The Good Friday Agreement was instrumental in ending the violence in Ireland between Nationalists and Unionists. There are some that fear a customs check could reignite violence as the choice of remaining part of the UK becomes more divisive once again.

The WA "back stop" protected the GFA, much lessened the threat of a resumption of violence and bought time until technology removed the need for a hard border. That technology does not exist yet

In Northern Ireland, the Unionist and Nationalist communities living under the GFA have not integrated, they live in a permanent state of stand-off

I quote from Dearbhail McDonald who said in this article https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/02/british-no-deal-brexit-irish-peace-unity

"What was once an entirely fringe aspiration for nationalists, and a dreaded fear for unionists – each side comforted by the thought that the conversation about unification was decades away – has become an urgent debate for all."

and then

"Unification without the support of unionists, whose traditions and identity must be protected as part of any shared future, cannot be pursued as a zero-sum game. Otherwise we risk repeating history: the Troubles in reverse. Northern Ireland could not, in its current perilous state, survive either a hard Brexit or a united Ireland. Its communities are suspended in an in-between space, in which they have enjoyed 21 years without violence but have not yet progressed to a positive peace or meaningful integration – a process that takes time and effort to heal wounds."
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« Reply #19673 on: August 12, 2019, 02:08:33 PM »

Comprehensive in explaining past friction and tension between religious groups

What I’m really seeking is why a customs barrier would auto be the catalyst to turn friction into killings in 2019

If we are certain of this I think the EU refusing to budge on trade arrangements is curious. They don’t care if people are killed as long as principals of the union’s trade are upheld?
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« Reply #19674 on: August 12, 2019, 04:24:15 PM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49321430

Double standard sexist bollocks.

Can you image the outrage if someone suggested an all white men solution?
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« Reply #19675 on: August 12, 2019, 04:45:23 PM »

Comprehensive in explaining past friction and tension between religious groups

What I’m really seeking is why a customs barrier would auto be the catalyst to turn friction into killings in 2019

If we are certain of this I think the EU refusing to budge on trade arrangements is curious. They don’t care if people are killed as long as principals of the union’s trade are upheld?

Good post by Tighty, but I have to agree with Mantis.

This is so important, Boris has to do something about the back stop to realistically get it through, why would the EU refuse to even discuss alternatives.

Not suggesting there are any, or that any of them would be acceptable, but to refuse to even brainstorm alternate ideas for a day seems overly stubborn?

 
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« Reply #19676 on: August 12, 2019, 04:54:22 PM »

Boris has refused to meet the EU so far, as i understand it? Playing hardball etc

He is meeting Varadkhar this week at the Irish PMs request

The backstop was the UK's idea, inserted into the WA at the UK request.

Without a backstop, how do you keep the good friday agreement intact? thats why the backstop was invented in the first place, as a device to protect that, and with it peace.

to answer the previous question, the Nationalist community kicks off if there is a hard border (whole point of GFA is to allow free access). the Unionist community kicks off if Brexit leads to a bigger chance of unification

either way, a tricky spot for any negotiation.

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« Reply #19677 on: August 12, 2019, 05:09:51 PM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49321430

Double standard sexist bollocks.

Can you image the outrage if someone suggested an all white men solution?

There’s a excellent book called ‘The Descent of Man’ by Grayson Perry. Lots of it is applicable to situations like this. It doe seem to me that no one gets more outraged about stuff than white middle/old aged men.
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« Reply #19678 on: August 12, 2019, 05:14:58 PM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49321430

Double standard sexist bollocks.

Can you image the outrage if someone suggested an all white men solution?

There’s a excellent book called ‘The Descent of Man’ by Grayson Perry. Lots of it is applicable to situations like this. It doe seem to me that no one gets more outraged about stuff than white middle/old aged men.

I’m playing devils advocate. In today’s PC world this is certainly not equality in any sense of the word.

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« Reply #19679 on: August 12, 2019, 05:18:32 PM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49321430

Double standard sexist bollocks.

Can you image the outrage if someone suggested an all white men solution?

There’s a excellent book called ‘The Descent of Man’ by Grayson Perry. Lots of it is applicable to situations like this. It doe seem to me that no one gets more outraged about stuff than white middle/old aged men.


If it wasn't for women getting outraged in the first place, then the men would have nothing to react over.
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