Quick Hello and P4C

[M3boy]

Before everyone gets carried away with the 70% admin fees - my opinion I will keep to myself,

PLEASE PLEASE take a look here :

http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/registeredcharities/SIRList.asp?Begin=A

It is the charaties commission website where you can view charity trading accounts.

It takes a bit of working out where to look, but basically pick a charity, then click to se other information about the charity, then scroll down till you see something that says view financial information, pick a year, and there you can see the full financial statements

You may never give to charaties again.

[bobby1]

As far as I am concerned its a good start but i like others find it discusting that 70p in every pound goes on fees/administration instead of to good causes. If this is the best the charity can be run I would suggest it ceases trading as one ASAP as now these figures have been disclosed I would doubt anybody would support future events.

Very well done to Tony and Tom for going to this meeting and getting a cheque but I still feel a lot needs to be done about the future of P4C. I for one would still like to do something for Maureen and Reece as do a lot of people who have pm'd me but i will leave that entirely to you tony, if you decide extra funds are required please let me know how I can help.

I think that sums up my feelings exactly.

[Poppet7]

I remember reading somewhere a year also ago that that the rspca runs at an administration cost of 85%. Unfortunately alot of charities do have high admin costs, Game4life is a very young charity and the admin will be high as it has to establish itself a foundation. It needs support from poker players from around the world if it is to become as big as daveys dream.
    People really need to open there eyes up and look at the positive thing in all of this not the admin costs, but the fact that 2 people of worked incredibly hard and some good childrens causes around the country and world are £10,000 better off.

Without the hard work of the people that give thier time and energy this wouldnt have been possible

if the rspca runs at administration costs of 85% I would also be appalled at that. However they raise millions each year and also run shelters etc which come out of those admin costs so are actually caring for animals out of their costs. It doesnt wash with me mate and the fact you say childrens charities are 10k better off just doesnt do it for me as Davey has made 8k a year in wages alone. Please dont try and justify what most of us on here find absolutely appaling as it makes you look rather silly.

Yes the world is £10,000 better off... but it should've been so much more.

[charmaine]

Before everyone gets carried away with the 70% admin fees - my opinion I will keep to myself,

PLEASE PLEASE take a look here :

http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/registeredcharities/SIRList.asp?Begin=A

You may never give to charaties again.

Unbelievable !!!!  its gutting when you give what you can and most of it ends up somewhere else 

[the-oneeye]

Im pretty sure that both ange and davey are a little embarrassed, at how things have happened. I know for a fact both of them havent been well for months now, and the charity has probably taken a back burner. The thing is the money to reece,stacy and maureen has now been sorted. and the money raised from the blondes is great. Raising money in the poker world isnt an ideal place to raise money. Dont get me wrong there are some very generous poker players out there.

And the reason i can back davey and ange on what they do is as follows

 I run the cornwall No1 cosmo club, which is an idea of daveys that local poker players get together a couple of times a week to have a game of poker and raise money for game4life. Now we have been doing this for a little under 6 months and by the end of next week we will have raised over £2000. Not a large sum granted now for all you doubters out there let me go through what this cost for me to set up.

Tables 9 large and 4 table top .........£810
chips 6000 assorted........................£330
copac cards  40 packets                 £200
assorted chip trays/buttons             £30
cheap van to transport the stuff around £300
laptop to run events and keep records     £450
tax on van                                            £97
insurance on van...................................£37 pm £220
poker manager software                         £49
Trophies to keep players happy................£200
diesel for van.........................................£80
and other incidentals                    around £400

that would make a round figure of around £3166

Now on the scale of things am i right to be doing this, apart from a bit i shouldnt have many large costs in the next year. Poker tournements take an awful lot of setting up and its only been recently that the poker tournaments davey runs have been run in casinos. where the overheads are limited. Also the fact that people say i want a tournement in london or cardiff, or scarborough or where ever, then there is the travelling expenses for all invloved. It also got to the point where Davey had to get offices(at a very cheap price i may add) because his house was over run.

So when someone says to me that the exspenses to the ammount the causes received ratio is bad i say to you look at the big picture. Yes in the ideal world it should improve and if Game4life is given the chance to continue im sure it is something that will be looked into.

[thetank]

I remember reading somewhere a year also ago that that the rspca runs at an administration cost of 85%. Unfortunately alot of charities do have high admin costs, Game4life is a very young charity and the admin will be high as it has to establish itself a foundation. It needs support from poker players from around the world if it is to become as big as daveys dream.
    People really need to open there eyes up and look at the positive thing in all of this not the admin costs, but the fact that 2 people of worked incredibly hard and some good childrens causes around the country and world are £10,000 better off.

Without the hard work of the people that give thier time and energy this wouldnt have been possible

Well written post, it's nice that someone can say that.

I don't think most of the people here are questioning either the commitment, or the ethics of the people behind P4C and G4L. It's their buisness practises and competency that is being called into question on the most part.



As for the good childrens causes being £10,000 better off, I find fallacy in that.

People that run the charity arn't wholly responsible for all the money raised. Those parting with their cash, the individual donators have a large part in it too. Some people give away a more or less set amount of money to charity every year. In that mini-system, all the people who run charities in this country are responsible for, is which one of them gets it.

I'm not being hypothetical here. When I talk about "some people" I know they are real and I know they exist. The reason, I am one of them. I've done a reasonable amount for seemingly good causes this year (to ease my guilty concious of all those villages I burned down in Nam) it just so happened pretty much all of it was for Game 4 Life. If it wasn't them, it would have been somebody else.......

[ariston]

All very good and well and no doubt Dave and Ang have put there all into this but it just isn't financially viable in my oppinion. I will not support any future activities run by P4C after all this. I think after these revelations and the way Maureen has been treated many people will feel the same. Yes Maureen has now got some more money but should all this have been needed? The fact you have almost been shamed into giving the money over is a disgrace as is the fact your accounts from 2 years ago have only just been done (again only becuase you have been shamed into doing them imo).

I once played as a "bounty" in one of their online fundraisers and managed to rack up around 40 rebuys by going allin blind every hand. Its good to see that out of the $200 or so I spent in that satelitte $60 went to good causes.

[M3boy]

One more point, then I must go to bed.

I cannot see why the second years figures will only be 30p in the pound, for this reason :

The first year will involve alot of legal and professional fees - these can be very expensive.

The second year would not have these expenses, so the ratio of donations/money given to good causes should be better.

Maybe Tony got the wrong end of the stick? I dont know, but would be VERY suprised to see the 2nd year the same as the first.

Again, I am not voicing any personal opinion I have, just trying to give the benefit of my knowledge.

[the-oneeye]

You may well be right that it just isnt financial viable. Its is entirely anyones choice to support these events and for those that do my heart goes to you.

There are alot of issues that need to be addressed and the delay in getting the money raised to the right people on this occassion was unacceptable, unfortunately things happen, and thanks to tikay and jagster part of the issue is rectified. I would have thought it would be time to put this thread to bed now. I say anyone that doesnt want to support game4life in future that is there choice and i respect them for that. Now you will have to excuse me its bed time and i have to be up early in the morning to go shopping with one of the nurses for the clic ward in treliske hospital truro to go and buy presents that we will be handing out on christmas morning.

[Royal Flush]

One more point, then I must go to bed.

I cannot see why the second years figures will only be 30p in the pound, for this reason :

The first year will involve alot of legal and professional fees - these can be very expensive.

The second year would not have these expenses, so the ratio of donations/money given to good causes should be better.

Maybe Tony got the wrong end of the stick? I dont know, but would be VERY suprised to see the 2nd year the same as the first.

Again, I am not voicing any personal opinion I have, just trying to give the benefit of my knowledge.

The problem was Paul that instead of 10+ events in year 2, there have only been about 4 due to the gaming commission coming down hard before the Cardiff event.

I am sure that this number will rise as time goes by, as you say Paul the first year is always going to be poor with all the setup costs.

[thetank]

Frightning.
So we're off to a charity poker tournament at the weekend.

Return train tickets - £50
Hotel for 2 nights - £70
Drinks on Friday and Saturday nights - £60
Food and other lesser expenses - £30

It's a tenner rebuy, we play fairly loose, and have seven.

Buy-ins - £80
Raffle tickets - £10


So we've done £300 quid at the weekend, but that's ok, it was for charity.

Half the buy-ins are paid out as prizes, so we've only donated £50 of this £300.

Of this £50, the charity needs 70% to cover it's expenses, so while we were feeling quite pleased with ourselves for spending £300 on "charity", the amount going to do any good is only £15!!!!

When Children in Need comes along, we don't feel any need to swing them a oner no more like what we always used to.


So has £10,000 been raised for good causes, or has £10,000 been taken from good causes?

Still....it was a good weekend wasn't it?

[Wardonkey]

Sigh,

I think I'd rather pay tax....

[suzanne]

Frightning.
So we're off to a charity poker tournament at the weekend.

Return train tickets - £50
Hotel for 2 nights - £70
Drinks on Friday and Saturday nights - £60
Food and other lesser expenses - £30

It's a tenner rebuy, we play fairly loose, and have seven.

Buy-ins - £80
Raffle tickets - £10


So we've done £300 quid at the weekend, but that's ok, it was for charity.

Half the buy-ins are paid out as prizes, so we've only donated £50 of this £300.

Of this £50, the charity needs 70% to cover it's expenses, so while we were feeling quite pleased with ourselves for spending £300 on "charity", the amount going to do any good is only £15!!!!

When Children in Need comes along, we don't feel any need to swing them a oner no more like what we always used to.


So has £10,000 been raised for good causes, or has £10,000 been taken from good causes?

That just about sums it up in how im feeling at the moment.

[suzanne]

OK im a bit thick on these things but i would like to ask something.

If only 30% of donations actually get spent on charity...was only 30% of the funds raised at this event destined to go to the Reece/hospital fund?

I am not trying to cause trouble..its a genuine question.

[ariston]

One more point, then I must go to bed.

I cannot see why the second years figures will only be 30p in the pound, for this reason :

The first year will involve alot of legal and professional fees - these can be very expensive.

The second year would not have these expenses, so the ratio of donations/money given to good causes should be better.

Maybe Tony got the wrong end of the stick? I dont know, but would be VERY suprised to see the 2nd year the same as the first.

Again, I am not voicing any personal opinion I have, just trying to give the benefit of my knowledge.

The problem was Paul that instead of 10+ events in year 2, there have only been about 4 due to the gaming commission coming down hard before the Cardiff event.

I am sure that this number will rise as time goes by, as you say Paul the first year is always going to be poor with all the setup costs.

I'm not as sure as you james. I think any events they now organise will have a shadow over them and there may only be a loyal few in attendance. I would rather go to a charity function where I am sure my money ( I don't have a lot as it is) is going to good causes and not being swallowed up by poor management. I Imagine there may be a few Charity dos at d2d and I bet rob will ensure a very high % (if not all ) of money collected gets put to good use.  Their heart was in the right place but I think P4C has been miss managed and too much money has already been wasted. Any money I give to charity in future I will make sure to ask how much of my pound is being swallowed by admin etc.