Liverpool FC

[MANTIS01]

The villa stats are misleading because Downing was supplying the bullets for Emile Heskey, John Carew, and Gabby Agbonlahor. Think they got about 6 goals between them. If he does stay at Villa I'm sure his assist stats will rocket with Bent as frontman. For me, after paying £35m for an aerial threat I would seek to bring out the best in that new talent by employing at least one traditional winger to supply the ammo. So actually the important stats here are number and accuracy of crosses into the box, and Downing>>>>>>>Kuyt in that dept. Also Downing is a young english lad from the north-east who understands the premier league and will know what Carroll wants. I think the two of them would gel well and is why i'd sign him. When you get players gelling well you have a good team yah. Liverpool could pay 10m more for a fancy continental player unproven in the league but he wont know what Carroll's caveman screams from the box mean. Adam Johnson would be the best player in that position imo but Downing's a lot better than Pennant.

[boldie]

Just about agree with Armchair pundit today (Although it's a catastrophically poorly written article..or maybe just poorly editted?);

As he watches Liverpool's spring revival from the sidelines, you could forgive Steven Gerrard for feeling a little nervous.

Four months into the second coming of King Kenny, Liverpool fans are starting to think the unthinkable: Do we still need Stevie G?

Could the man whose colossal influence has dominated Anfield for a decade really be surplus to requirements?

It is a notion that borders on the heretical for some, but it stems from the club's remarkable upturn in fortunes without their captain.

Gerrard has played only six of 22 games under Dalglish, and none since March 6.

In that time, Liverpool have risen from relegation contenders to possible European qualifiers.

Although they look set to just miss out on Europa League qualification, that may be no bad thing given the corrosive effect this season's bleak European campaign had on them.

It is not so much results under Dalglish that have caught the eye (11 wins in 22 games is good, but not spectacular), but their style of play and above all the mood about the club.

The Kop has been transformed from a cauldron of discontent to a place of joy and optimism.

For the first time in two decades, Liverpool might be the most expressive, expansive team in the Premier League.

At the heart of it is the spectacular Luis Suarez - an absolute bargain at £22.8m - but the previously-maligned Dirk Kuyt, Maxi Rodriguez and even Lucas Leiva have all blossomed, playing with freedom and a genuine sense of enjoyment.

More than anything, though, they look like a proper team.

Two major factors facilitated the transformation under Dalglish; the decision to swap Torres for Suarez and Andy Carroll; and Gerrard's injury, which forced Liverpool to find a different way of playing.

No longer is everything going through Gerrard - the threat comes from all parts. Creativity is encouraged, and the team's mantra is no longer simply 'give it to Stevie'.

Ever since Gerrard bludgeoned Liverpool to Champions League glory in 2005, this has been his team.

No problem when he was among the leading handful of players in the world, and had top-quality foils in Xabi Alonso and Fernando Torres.

If your skipper is bashing in a dozen late winners a season, it is natural to give him the ball. But what happens when the Roy of the Rovers heroics stop?

Earlier this season, with Gerrard declining, Alonso a distant memory and Torres present in body only, the result was a catastrophic slide to the nether reaches of the Premier League table.

Nobody in their right mind can argue that Roy Hodgson is a bad manager, but he was in charge of a miserable side that leant on an out-of-sorts Gerrard who could no longer carry the load.

Gerrard turns 31 this month, and while he remains club captain and a valuable player, he must accept he is no longer Liverpool's kingpin.

He is certainly not obsolete, but neither is he essential.

Jay Spearing is only a fraction the player of Gerrard in his prime, but his first instinct when he gets the ball is to pass it to a team-mate. His first instinct when he gives the ball away is to chase back and recover it. He is a team player.

Too often Gerrard looks to pull off the spectacular instead of finding better-placed colleagues. Now his supporting cast have proven themselves more than able, to continue that trend would be unforgivable.

He must learn to adapt - and given his and Frank Lampard's decade-long failure to dovetail in the same England midfield, you have to wonder whether he can.

Ultimately, Gerrard is an intelligent, gifted player with a compelling reason to scale back his role. If the consequence of playing a smaller role in a greater team is silverware, then he will gladly make the sacrifice.

[kinboshi]

I think Gerrard will flourish in a side where the level of expectation doesn't just land on his shoulders.  Like I said previously, if he's fully fit for next season he'll be like getting a world class signing. 

I disagree with the 'decline' bit - and the out of sorts reason is obvious.  To say Gerrard is a one-dimensional player is wide of the mark imo - he's much better than that.

[celtic]

We've already signed one left-sided midfielder/winger, and I'd hope there are better options than Downing available when we're looking at wide players.

How often has Downing actually looked like a class player? Isn't he, like Joe Cole, just trading on his Football Manager 2006 reputation?

His stats for 2010-2011 are

GAMES   GOALS   ASSISTS   SHOTS
37   6   7   97

Very poor IMO for someone "Who can put a better ball in than Kuyt"

Kuyt;

2010/11 Barclays Premier League
GAMES   GOALS   ASSISTS   SHOTS
32   13   7   64

Why on earth would you even think of a player like Downing. If you can't improve on the squad there is no point buying someone.

Think I heard the other week that Kuyt has better stats than Bale. If Bale is worth 50m, then Kuyt is worth more, No?

[kinboshi]

We've already signed one left-sided midfielder/winger, and I'd hope there are better options than Downing available when we're looking at wide players.

How often has Downing actually looked like a class player? Isn't he, like Joe Cole, just trading on his Football Manager 2006 reputation?

His stats for 2010-2011 are

GAMES   GOALS   ASSISTS   SHOTS
37   6   7   97

Very poor IMO for someone "Who can put a better ball in than Kuyt"

Kuyt;

2010/11 Barclays Premier League
GAMES   GOALS   ASSISTS   SHOTS
32   13   7   64

Why on earth would you even think of a player like Downing. If you can't improve on the squad there is no point buying someone.

Think I heard the other week that Kuyt has better stats than Bale. If Bale is worth 50m, then Kuyt is worth more, No?

Currently, yes.

[77dave]

Kin, what signings would you like to be made over the close season and therefore your ideal starting XI for next season

[kinboshi]

Kin, what signings would you like to be made over the close season and therefore your ideal starting XI for next season

Ideal as in money no object, or realistic assuming Dalglish & Comolli get a decent, but not ridiculous war-chest?

[77dave]

Kin, what signings would you like to be made over the close season and therefore your ideal starting XI for next season

Ideal as in money no object, or realistic assuming Dalglish & Comolli get a decent, but not ridiculous war-chest?

lets say 20m plus money generated from sales

[mondatoo]

Kin, what signings would you like to be made over the close season and therefore your ideal starting XI for next season

Ideal as in money no object, or realistic assuming Dalglish & Comolli get a decent, but not ridiculous war-chest?

I don't think he was asking you to name your all star XI. If only you accepted God in your life, he could make miracles happen and you'd have a shot at the title next year.

[gatso]

who would you like to replace stevie g when he leaves to get european football?

[kinboshi]

Kin, what signings would you like to be made over the close season and therefore your ideal starting XI for next season

Ideal as in money no object, or realistic assuming Dalglish & Comolli get a decent, but not ridiculous war-chest?

lets say 20m plus money generated from sales

OK - sounds realistic.

I think we'd probably all agree that up front we're OK for the time-being - i.e. we don't need to be spending the money there (Torres and Babel were replaced more than adequately imo).

Pepe is staying, and that's a HUGE positive.  So again, no worries there (assuming no injuries, but we'll just have to assume that for now).

Central midfield - Gerrard, Mereiles, Lucas, Spearing, Shelvey  (again, no massive changes needed there as a priority imo).

Central defence - Carragher and Agger would be my preferred two here, but Agger seems to be made out of meringue.  Skrtel isn't good enough imo (although he's been 'better' recently), and I'd love to see Kelly come through and get a chance there.  I think he's good enough to play regularly in the Premier League at centre back.  Not sure about Wilson (not seen enough of him really), but I'm assured he's one for the future - so maybe he'll be on the fringes as squad cover?  So maybe we need to sign a quality centre back for next season.  Who that would be I don't really know.  It seems to be a very important position, but generally one that isn't as expensive to fill as other spots.  Maybe someone like Dann from Birmingham?  Not sure how much he'd cost, maybe £7M?  Defour is also a name that we've been linked with.

The spots where we've been weakest this season are the full-back and left-midfield position (and right-mid when Kuyt was utilised up front).  I'm happy with Kuyt on the right and also as cover for Carroll/Suarez if there are suspensions/injuries.

So that leaves left-midfield/wing.  My choice (from my limited knowledge of who's available and how much they'd cost) is Eden Hazard.  He's going to cost between £15-20M, but could be more if there's some crazy bidding war.  He's a quality player and can play on either flank and even through the middle.  So worth pushing the boat out for him imo.  He might need some convincing to come to Liverpool in our current situation (without European football), but he's still young and if he buys in to the long-term plan then he might be persuaded.

We've apparently already got Marveaux from Rennes (I believe he's out of contract, so do I get him for free?) - so that's some wide options in the squad - I'd still want Hazard obviously.

So now I have no kitty left, and need to think about the full-back roles.  Flanagan is good enough for me, and can play on either side which is a positive.  Kelly can also fill in at full-back, even though I think his future lies in the centre of defence.  Aurelio would be good at left-back, if he wasn't made out of more fragile stuff than Agger.

So there's the enigma of Johnson.  There was talk of him being sold, and part of me thinks that might be a good option to bring in someone more dependable.  The other part of me thinks that he has shown he is good enough, just not consistently.  If he can play to his capability every week, then we keep him.  Otherwise, if we can get £15M for him, we can sign someone else to come in at full-back.  As to who that would be, I'm not sure.

I think Cole should be sold - just hasn't delivered and can't see him getting regular football in the side now, and can't see him being happy with that either.  So get him off the wage bill and use the money from his sale for the other purchases.

[77dave]

Im not saying we are gonna have a mass cull, but i do think a good 5-6 players will be moving on.

Kyrgiakos
Cole
Degen
Insua
Aqua
Jones
Konchesky
Poulson
El Zhar
Jovanovic

Thats 10 players id say we will do well to get over 20m for all of those combined.

Id like Friedel signed to cover Reina and sell Brad Jones
LB Priority position. Enrique and a few others linked Aurellio as cover
CB id like Cahill or Dann brought in to partner Agger or Carra. Kyrgiakos to move on Wilson and Kelly to gain more XP
RB Happy enough with Johnson here with Kelly and Flanagan pushing him for the position
CM Meireles needs to be left alone and played in his best position CM not pushed out to the wings. Lucas and Stevie G
LM Mata Spend proper money and get a WC winger
RM Kuyt work rate and goals cant be underestimated
F  Suarez will be even better next year. Pure Class


                         Reina
Johnson    Cahill           Agger        Enrique
          Stevie G  Lucas        Meireles
Kuyt                                          Mata
                    Suarez

Bench. Friedel, Kelly, Carra, Skertel, Spearing, Shelvey, Carroll
Squad. Aurellio, Wilson, Maxi, Ngog, Marveux

Pancheco, Eccelston and Ayala to go out on loan again.

[kinboshi]

No Flanagan or Robinson in the squad?

[kinboshi]

Im not saying we are gonna have a mass cull, but i do think a good 5-6 players will be moving on.

Kyrgiakos
Cole
Degen
Insua
Aqua
Jones
Konchesky
Poulson
El Zhar
Jovanovic

Thats 10 players id say we will do well to get over 20m for all of those combined.

Can't argue with any of those with any conviction.

Although with the sale of Aquilani and the others there, we should be able to recoup a decent amount that can be added to any money Henry provides.

[77dave]

No Flanagan or Robinson in the squad?

Have to be realistic that on matchdays they shouldnt be making the bench but of yes they would make the outreaches of the squad. Maybe a loan or more time with the reserves.