How to deal with serial overbetor preflop

[sovietsong]

Just wondering how you would adjust to a player whos opening bet preflop is standard 8x the bb.  I like to play flops with suited connectors, small pps etc however with this mug at the table i am not able to see as many flops as i'd like or control the table from pos as it seems he is always in before me with a stupid overbet.

Any suggestions, my current tactic is wait for big hand and sick a strong reraise in.  Working so far but him at my table is defo -ev

SS

[Ironside]

with him over betting it means you get paid more when you do have a big hand

when there are players on the table that overbet you cant play your post flop game

so you have to go into preflop reraise game

[sovietsong]

TY, i decided to avoid trying to play pots with him without a very strong hand/a hand i was willing to reraise with preflop.  Mainly because he was happy to fire out on the flop so if i called and missed i could be in a tricky spot.  The rest of the table seemed to get frustrated as if he wasnt betting i was, finished the short session 258bb/100, LOL.  Not bad.  I have stuck a note on him so i can avoid his table, cowardly i know but no point having another player at the table trying to "run" things!!

Plenty more fish in the sea

[Smart Money]

TY, i decided to avoid trying to play pots with him without a very strong hand/a hand i was willing to reraise with preflop.  Mainly because he was happy to fire out on the flop so if i called and missed i could be in a tricky spot.  The rest of the table seemed to get frustrated as if he wasnt betting i was, finished the short session 258bb/100, LOL.  Not bad.  I have stuck a note on him so i can avoid his table, cowardly i know but no point having another player at the table trying to "run" things!!

Plenty more fish in the sea

No! No! No!

You do not want to avoid sitting with this player. These type of players (aggressive maniacs) can be tricky to play against but they are gold mines- and there is a very simple solution...

Sit on his right hand side.

This effectively gives you position on the whole table post-flop as each post-flop street will [generally] be checked to him.

If you're on his left, it can make decisions very hard for you.

E.g. You call his pre-flop raise with TT, together with 2 other players. Flop is Qxx. He bets pot. If you're on his left then you can't call because even if you're pretty sure you are ahead of him there are still players behind you to act. However, if you're on his immediate right, then you have a much easier decision: He bets pot on flop- other players fold- now you can comfortably call/raise.

[Moskvich]

It's not something I've got a great grasp of, but since you've already got an idea of how he plays i wonder if it might be worth buying in short against him, if you are going to play on his table. If you've got stats on how often he raises preflop then maybe you can assign a raising range to him and then basically just shove pre-flop (or call and commit yourself to following through with the rest) when you're ahead of that range. Easier than reraising him light when you're relatively deep, and then not knowing what to do if he keeps going at you post flop.

Would be interested in whether others think this is a good strategy against regular opponents who do this.

[sovietsong]

It's not something I've got a great grasp of, but since you've already got an idea of how he plays i wonder if it might be worth buying in short against him, if you are going to play on his table. If you've got stats on how often he raises preflop then maybe you can assign a raising range to him and then basically just shove pre-flop (or call and commit yourself to following through with the rest) when you're ahead of that range. Easier than reraising him light when you're relatively deep, and then not knowing what to do if he keeps going at you post flop.

Would be interested in whether others think this is a good strategy against regular opponents who do this.

i like your idea however i feel that im just giving potential earnings away by doing this, i am doing very well at the current level 25bb/100 over about 1500 hands (i know i know small sample size) and therefore feel that if i can avoid this chap for the time being that would be better! 

Like the idea of sitting to his right.  i could then do alot of check raising etc, however i must say that i have watched him play a few tables and he isnt donking money off he is actually doing quite well.  People seem to pay him off an awful lot with rags...

[Moskvich]

i feel that im just giving potential earnings away by doing this

I suspect you're right. Depends how many pots he's in, I suppose - if there's plenty of occasions when he's not involved then maybe shortstacking isn't a great idea as it limits your play against everyone else at the table. I've been in similar situations and found them difficult - I'm not surprised that others pay him off with very little, as it's easy to get frustrated and play back at the raiser, getting yourself sucked into to an bloated pot that you don't really belong in. If you have the discipline to avoid doing that then I'm sure you're right in saying it's not worth changing your game massively on account of just one player.

[Robert HM]

Just wondering how you would adjust to a player whos opening bet preflop is standard 8x the bb.  I like to play flops with suited connectors, small pps etc however with this mug at the table i am not able to see as many flops as i'd like or control the table from pos as it seems he is always in before me with a stupid overbet.

Any suggestions, my current tactic is wait for big hand and sick a strong reraise in.  Working so far but him at my table is defo -ev

SS

I waited to see what others said as I am a minimal cash player and didnt want to make a prat of myself. I took the liberty of highlighting the most telling part of your post. In comps you cant choose your table, you can in cash, you have made the decision it's -ev, find another table where your game makes you steady money, rather than spend earning time trying to get around one players game. That is my opinion dont flame to hard.

[johnbhoy76]

Some people like to play against these guys as in the long run you will make money off them. But I would imagine the variance would be quite extreme against these guys.

At the end of the day though if he is making you play outside your comfort zone then why bother taking him on if there's easier games around?

Just move to another table full of passive fish who will let you see the cheap flops in position that you want to see.

Obviously in a tournament you don't have that option and you just need to get on with it.

[kinboshi]

TY, i decided to avoid trying to play pots with him without a very strong hand/a hand i was willing to reraise with preflop.  Mainly because he was happy to fire out on the flop so if i called and missed i could be in a tricky spot.  The rest of the table seemed to get frustrated as if he wasnt betting i was, finished the short session 258bb/100, LOL.  Not bad.  I have stuck a note on him so i can avoid his table, cowardly i know but no point having another player at the table trying to "run" things!!

Plenty more fish in the sea

No! No! No!

You do not want to avoid sitting with this player. These type of players (aggressive maniacs) can be tricky to play against but they are gold mines- and there is a very simple solution...

Sit on his right hand side.

This effectively gives you position on the whole table post-flop as each post-flop street will [generally] be checked to him.

If you're on his left, it can make decisions very hard for you.

E.g. You call his pre-flop raise with TT, together with 2 other players. Flop is Qxx. He bets pot. If you're on his left then you can't call because even if you're pretty sure you are ahead of him there are still players behind you to act. However, if you're on his immediate right, then you have a much easier decision: He bets pot on flop- other players fold- now you can comfortably call/raise.

You're right, and you're wrong (just my opinion). 

If you have the game to beat this player - who might be a very clever and tricky player rather than just a lunatic - then he might be a nice income generator for you.

BUT, if this player is putting you off your game, and it's reducing your return, then there's no harm at all in selecting another table to play on to avoid him. 

Love the advice about how to play him though.  Always appreciate your posts on cash games, as I know many others do as well.  Just remember though, not everyone is as good .

[sovietsong]

TY, i decided to avoid trying to play pots with him without a very strong hand/a hand i was willing to reraise with preflop.  Mainly because he was happy to fire out on the flop so if i called and missed i could be in a tricky spot.  The rest of the table seemed to get frustrated as if he wasnt betting i was, finished the short session 258bb/100, LOL.  Not bad.  I have stuck a note on him so i can avoid his table, cowardly i know but no point having another player at the table trying to "run" things!!

Plenty more fish in the sea

No! No! No!

You do not want to avoid sitting with this player. These type of players (aggressive maniacs) can be tricky to play against but they are gold mines- and there is a very simple solution...

Sit on his right hand side.

This effectively gives you position on the whole table post-flop as each post-flop street will [generally] be checked to him.

If you're on his left, it can make decisions very hard for you.

E.g. You call his pre-flop raise with TT, together with 2 other players. Flop is Qxx. He bets pot. If you're on his left then you can't call because even if you're pretty sure you are ahead of him there are still players behind you to act. However, if you're on his immediate right, then you have a much easier decision: He bets pot on flop- other players fold- now you can comfortably call/raise.

You're right, and you're wrong (just my opinion). 

If you have the game to beat this player - who might be a very clever and tricky player rather than just a lunatic - then he might be a nice income generator for you.

BUT, if this player is putting you off your game, and it's reducing your return, then there's no harm at all in selecting another table to play on to avoid him. 

Love the advice about how to play him though.  Always appreciate your posts on cash games, as I know many others do as well.  Just remember though, not everyone is as good .

I have watched this guy some more after i posted, just out of interest really, i was knackered so wasnt going to play, i think that he is quite clever.  He looks like a really donky with his bets sizing, however although he was opening for stupid amounts he got paid in a big way when making decent hands and he only c-bet the flop, when he came up against resistance he slowed right down.  On top of this he picked out the weaker players really well, and on one of the tables he wasnt betting as much pre flop, giving me the impression that if he comes up against alot of reraising etc he bets properly!  I have some decent notes on him now so if he is at my table i might consider playing him but we will have to wait and see!

Thank you for all the comments, first time i had ran into this type of player at the low limit cash games, however i expect i will meet more of his kind if i progress to the higher levels! 

very tricky!

SS

[AlexMartin]

Adapt and snap him. I love these guys. Also helps to only buy in for 50BB, plenty to work with and forces them to make larger errors in terms of implied odds/dominated hands.

[BTB]

Know the feeling, played against one last night he raised every hand pre-flop to £10 in a £1-£1 game, i looked down at AA after his raise and stuck in the £43 i had left to push out the couple left to go after me knowing he would call, he did call with Q5 off suit.
Answers on a postcard please saying what the flop came!!
 

BTB