Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[tikay]

Thanks Tighty

Tikay where do you get the net debt figure from? I have 1,143.2 at 31/12/09 and 1,622.9 at 31/12/09

From the Link I gave you earlier. Go to "2010 Results" on the top right hand side.Though I'm taking Gross Debt, I think. Relatively, it matters not - the debt is too high (imo) given all the circumstances. The business is a mature cash-cow, so it should not be carrying such levels of debt imo.

[tikay]

The Tiger Woods "story behind the story" gets more & more intriguing.

The Press Conference - taking place now I believe - is bizarrely timed to coincide with the Accenture Tourney. That'd be Accenture, who abandoned their sponsorship of him when it all kicked off.

And some Press Conference. "Invited" friends & colleagues only, & no questions from the floor!

I'm trying to stay onside with a sporting hero here, but he's not making it easy.

I feel exactly as I did when Piggott got sent down. I want to make excuses for my fallen hero, but their "damage limitation" skills seem to need a bit of honing.

There are pros & cons of course, & we'll never know the full story. Simply, I just thought watching Woods play golf - or Piggott ride a waiting race - was a thing of beauty.

I fancy there are more twists & turns yet in the Tiger tale.

[tikay]

Ugh.

Just heard that Woods said "I don't rule out a return to golf this year".

2011 it is then. At best. Hope I'm wrong though.

[tikay]

A good friend sent me one of those comedy e-Mails today. I rarely read such things, but this guy only selects good stuff, & it was hilarious.

I tried to reproduce it here, but was unable to. (= Incompetent so to do....)

But one word in it I loved - "congress", a way of describing the sexual act. "Congress"  indeed. Fancy a bit of congress, dear?

I enlisted the help of Mr google (don't be pedantic Mr Boshi, you know what  mean), & found the piece, & some expansion on it, here....

http://heresydungeon.blogspot.com/2010/02/good-advice.html

[Simon Galloway]

Thanks Tighty

Tikay where do you get the net debt figure from? I have 1,143.2 at 31/12/09 and 1,622.9 at 31/12/09

From the Link I gave you earlier. Go to "2010 Results" on the top right hand side.Though I'm taking Gross Debt, I think. Relatively, it matters not - the debt is too high (imo) given all the circumstances. The business is a mature cash-cow, so it should not be carrying such levels of debt imo.

Tony, your aversion to debt is fairly well documented.  Do you not think 'serviceable debt' is a good thing ~ a desirable entry on the balance sheet?  From a previous life, something i.r.o 20% was seen as a healthy figure to have.

[The Camel]

Why haven't Ladbrokes/Hills/Corals etc set up their own betting exchange?

Betfair totally rules the betting market now, you can't get a bet on with a bookie if their price is even a fraction bigger than betfair.

I wanted to back have £1500 on Bayern to beat Fiorentina at 8/15 in the Chanpions League on Tuesday.

The betfair price was 1.48-1.49. I could have traded this bet for a free £50 or something.

Ladbrokes offered me £30 at the price on the coupon and the rest at 2/5.

They aren't bookies any more, they are penny pinching accountants.

I take it you didn't have the £30 bet and trade it for a free quid?

A good friend of mine used to bet a lot before the days of betfair. Once the bookies started to cap his bets he'd spite not place them because it wasn't worth it. Surely though if something's value it's value?

The fact that you can't make as much as you'd like shouldn't affect the bet should it? The % win is the same so the bet is just as good however much it's for?

I want to have a bet, I'm not looking to trade, I thought Bayern were good value at 8/15 that's why I wanted the bet.

Betfair has ruined gambling, wish it had never been invented.

[tikay]

Thanks Tighty

Tikay where do you get the net debt figure from? I have 1,143.2 at 31/12/09 and 1,622.9 at 31/12/09

From the Link I gave you earlier. Go to "2010 Results" on the top right hand side.Though I'm taking Gross Debt, I think. Relatively, it matters not - the debt is too high (imo) given all the circumstances. The business is a mature cash-cow, so it should not be carrying such levels of debt imo.

Tony, your aversion to debt is fairly well documented.  Do you not think 'serviceable debt' is a good thing ~ a desirable entry on the balance sheet?  From a previous life, something i.r.o 20% was seen as a healthy figure to have.

I'm not sure that debt is ever a good thing, cash is always better!

But yes, "serviceable debt" is the fashion today, & you understand the City better than I ever will.

But I'm not sure it can ever be viewed as a good thing in a Company which operates in a mature market, & where revenues are declining rapidly. Listed Companies are supposed to borrow money, & incur debt, as a means (in effect) of becoming more profitable, not less profitable. When you then alleviate that debt by issuing more paper, how can that be good?

I do agree I'm a bit Victorian in these things, especially as to business, though, so my view won't find much favour.

My last 20 odd years in business where spent in a an environment where my Group was wholly debt averse, & cash positive. All the subsidiary compasnies, of which mine was one, plugged into what was in effect a group overdraft facility. Interest rates were, let's say, 5%. If we were overdrawn, we paid 20% interest (to the parent company), if we were in credit, we got paid 10% interest! Some encouragement to operate in a cash positive manner. We also managed to "hold over" annual profits (by creatively massaging the W-I-P sheet), so that we had some wool on our backs. Prudency, you see? "Turnover is Vanity, Profit is sanity, Cash is King".

My business heroes were Sir Arnold Weinstock, with his famous cash-mountain at GEC, Warren Buffett, & of course Kohn Kirkland. All three have very strict views on the dangers of debt. So my thinking is in that vein. It just seems right to me.

If, say, google, or Apple, had a lump of debt, that'd not trouble me - they have rapidly increasing revenues in ever-growing market areas.

[lazaroonie]

The Tiger Woods "story behind the story" gets more & more intriguing.

The Press Conference - taking place now I believe - is bizarrely timed to coincide with the Accenture Tourney. That'd be Accenture, who abandoned their sponsorship of him when it all kicked off.

And some Press Conference. "Invited" friends & colleagues only, & no questions from the floor!

I'm trying to stay onside with a sporting hero here, but he's not making it easy.

I feel exactly as I did when Piggott got sent down. I want to make excuses for my fallen hero, but their "damage limitation" skills seem to need a bit of honing.

There are pros & cons of course, & we'll never know the full story. Simply, I just thought watching Woods play golf - or Piggott ride a waiting race - was a thing of beauty.

I fancy there are more twists & turns yet in the Tiger tale.

another piggot fan here. i am too young (un) fortunately so only saw the tail end of his first stint in the saddle. coming back to win on Royal Acadamy though was just sensational. I also cheered like a loony when he won the guineas on Rodrigo de Triano. (not just because i had a few bob on it)

[Simon Galloway]

The 10% interest 'award' is interesting - reward for not taking sensible risks!  The opportunity cost of taking 10% on your cash mountain is that you miss out on all opportunities to take on projects that may hit the jackpot.  Obvioulsy margins will vary greatly from sector to sector, but many projects floating around that had a ROI of 2 years or less were seen as something of a slam dunk as a business decision.  Yes, the odd one would turn sour due to unforeseen circumstances, but with a sensible debt ratio, the returns on investment in many sectors are quite frankly going to piss all over the cash mountain.

Those in favour of engaging a managebale level of debt would simply see a cash rich company as a company not trying hard enough with their money.  A bit like having a massive chip lead on the bubble and folding every hand.

But I'm glad you favour the cash mountain, that way I will be able to nip you for a century until the end of the month...

[tikay]

The Tiger Woods "story behind the story" gets more & more intriguing.

The Press Conference - taking place now I believe - is bizarrely timed to coincide with the Accenture Tourney. That'd be Accenture, who abandoned their sponsorship of him when it all kicked off.

And some Press Conference. "Invited" friends & colleagues only, & no questions from the floor!

I'm trying to stay onside with a sporting hero here, but he's not making it easy.

I feel exactly as I did when Piggott got sent down. I want to make excuses for my fallen hero, but their "damage limitation" skills seem to need a bit of honing.

There are pros & cons of course, & we'll never know the full story. Simply, I just thought watching Woods play golf - or Piggott ride a waiting race - was a thing of beauty.

I fancy there are more twists & turns yet in the Tiger tale.

another piggot fan here. i am too young (un) fortunately so only saw the tail end of his first stint in the saddle. coming back to win on Royal Acadamy though was just sensational. I also cheered like a loony when he won the guineas on Rodrigo de Triano. (not just because i had a few bob on it)

I think I first became aware of LP in the late sixties, when he won The Derby on "Sir Ivor".

He pioneered the modern way of riding with uber-short stirrups, & had an uncanny knack of getting a horse to run for him. He won race after race unextended, the horse never knew it had been in a race (see John Cherry, Chester Vase), but when the horse needed a bit of encouragement (a'la The Minstrel, in that famous Derby), he near as damn lifted the horse over the line.

And then he went & got himself sent to Prison.

That Royal Academy comeback though - what an occasion!

I would imagine that he is astonishingly wealthy, as jockeys of Classic winners usually get given a few shares.

Trivia Piggott question.

He rode a famous horse (but not to all the victories) that won 6 or 7 Grade One & Two races, two of which were in France. The owner, a very famous man indeed, was seen in a photograph in Tom's Diary, on this Forum, a year or so back. The owner was sat on Tom's sofa, in his mobile, sipping tea.  Name the horse & the owner.

It's an Iron-Farce type RSQ question, but you never know. Even Gatters won't get it. Nor will Tighty.

[tikay]

The 10% interest 'award' is interesting - reward for not taking sensible risks!  The opportunity cost of taking 10% on your cash mountain is that you miss out on all opportunities to take on projects that may hit the jackpot.  Obvioulsy margins will vary greatly from sector to sector, but many projects floating around that had a ROI of 2 years or less were seen as something of a slam dunk as a business decision.  Yes, the odd one would turn sour due to unforeseen circumstances, but with a sensible debt ratio, the returns on investment in many sectors are quite frankly going to piss all over the cash mountain.

Those in favour of engaging a managebale level of debt would simply see a cash rich company as a company not trying hard enough with their money.  A bit like having a massive chip lead on the bubble and folding every hand.

But I'm glad you favour the cash mountain, that way I will be able to nip you for a century until the end of the month...

Yes, I know all that jubba jubba. It's the modern way of business thinking, & you may well be right. I don't subscribe to it though, & never will. Earn the money first, THEN spend it. Borrowing aginst future potential earnings is way too dangerous for my mindset. You don't need me to name famous examples, do you!

To be right, it's the job of those in the City, Investment bankers & so forth, to spread that "spend, borrow, don't worry, it will be all right" gospel. Without it, they'd be our of work. It's the emporors suit of clothes thing.

We are talking biusiness finance here, not personal, by the way.

[Simon Galloway]

Of course there are many different styles out there, I just find it amusing that in business parlance, you wouldn't risk treading on a wet step, but in personal matters you are happy to embrace more risk.

And as for understanding the city; I spent quite a few years doing this and that as you know ~ and I'm not sure I understand the first thing about the city to this day.

what I did see is perhaps enough material for another time, but in cliffs notes styleee:

$100k+ employees that shouldn't have been given jobs in the local bakery.
Compliance/regulatory/supervisory functions that didn't understand the first thing about what they were doing
Politicking off the scale, many just chose to "go missing" once they reached a certain scale, too scared to do anything high profile which might cause a ripple, happy to ride the cash cow off into the sunset for as long as possible.
Dishonesty that would make poker players blush.

I'm happy to be out of it.

[tikay]

Of course there are many different styles out there, I just find it amusing that in business parlance, you wouldn't risk treading on a wet step, but in personal matters you are happy to embrace more risk.

And as for understanding the city; I spent quite a few years doing this and that as you know ~ and I'm not sure I understand the first thing about the city to this day.

what I did see is perhaps enough material for another time, but in cliffs notes styleee:

$100k+ employees that shouldn't have been given jobs in the local bakery.
Compliance/regulatory/supervisory functions that didn't understand the first thing about what they were doing
Politicking off the scale, many just chose to "go missing" once they reached a certain scale, too scared to do anything high profile which might cause a ripple, happy to ride the cash cow off into the sunset for as long as possible.
Dishonesty that would make poker players blush.

I'm happy to be out of it.

I bet you are!

And tell me, how many of these "borrow now, pay back later, it'll be fine, trust me" types saw the Credit-Crunch coming?

[tikay]

Of course there are many different styles out there, I just find it amusing that in business parlance, you wouldn't risk treading on a wet step, but in personal matters you are happy to embrace more risk.

And as for understanding the city; I spent quite a few years doing this and that as you know ~ and I'm not sure I understand the first thing about the city to this day.

what I did see is perhaps enough material for another time, but in cliffs notes styleee:

$100k+ employees that shouldn't have been given jobs in the local bakery.
Compliance/regulatory/supervisory functions that didn't understand the first thing about what they were doing
Politicking off the scale, many just chose to "go missing" once they reached a certain scale, too scared to do anything high profile which might cause a ripple, happy to ride the cash cow off into the sunset for as long as possible.
Dishonesty that would make poker players blush.

I'm happy to be out of it.

I am?

Anyway, work calls, I start at 7. Need to earn some money.....

[Simon Galloway]

I am?

Sure!  Just look at the way you play cards.. 

You've lent/staked etc ~ presumably JK would have raised an eyebrow, but there's no reason why work standards have to be maintained privately.  (And I've seen too many examples of private standards not being maintained in the workplace too..)

And as for those that got crucified by sub-prime debt, well they weren't exactly following the serviceable debt mantra either were they?  They were just riding the boom train and hoped to get rich and get off in time, great if it works, too bad if it doesn't.  Unbelieveable though that the Govt has "forgiven" them already by not blocking abnormal bonuses this year.