Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[Chompy]

I've never understood this patriotic bullshit.

You were pushed out your mums fanny here. You had absolutely no say in it whatsoever. You could've been born anywhere in the world, its only circumstances that meant you were born here. Where do people get this misguided sense of patriotic 'duty' from?

It's the lottery of life and we are very fucking fortunate to be born into relative wealth. So yeah I'm grateful that I was born into a country where I learn the most important/used language as my mother tongue, and where I don't have to walk 5 miles for clean water everyday. But why would that make me proud?

If anything I see way more stuff (Britain First, Brexit, general twats) that makes me ashamed of where I'm from than proud.

Bingo, bango, bongo. Couldn't have sayed it better myself.

[tikay]

I've never understood this patriotic bullshit.

You were pushed out your mums fanny here. You had absolutely no say in it whatsoever. You could've been born anywhere in the world, its only circumstances that meant you were born here. Where do people get this misguided sense of patriotic 'duty' from?

It's the lottery of life and we are very fucking fortunate to be born into relative wealth. So yeah I'm grateful that I was born into a country where I learn the most important/used language as my mother tongue, and where I don't have to walk 5 miles for clean water everyday. But why would that make me proud?

If anything I see way more stuff (Britain First, Brexit, general twats) that makes me ashamed of where I'm from than proud.

Bingo, bango, bongo. Couldn't have sayed it better myself.

....says the bloke from The Fens.

[Chompy]

Proud to be from the fens. A truly patriotic Chatterisian. Gawd bless our six-fingered Duke and Duchess.

[kukushkin88]

Think I'm grateful more than proud to be British.

You've won the lottery of life to be born here. That doesn't fill me with pride, just fortune.

Good shout sir, We're lucky to be British, not proud.

The problem with this argument of course is that you guys will never be able to feel pride in anything. Whatever you achieve will be primarily down to luck, the start you got in life. When your children graduate from university it will all be down to where they were pushed out of the fanny. People who were pushed out of the fanny in Somalia don't get the same chances.

I'm thinking you can probably see the holes in your own argument? It's fine to be proud of anything you achieve, irrelevant of where you were born. It's strange to be proud of something you didn't achieve.

[RED-DOG]

Think I'm grateful more than proud to be British.

You've won the lottery of life to be born here. That doesn't fill me with pride, just fortune.

Good shout sir, We're lucky to be British, not proud.

The problem with this argument of course is that you guys will never be able to feel pride in anything. Whatever you achieve will be primarily down to luck, the start you got in life. When your children graduate from university it will all be down to where they were pushed out of the fanny. People who were pushed out of the fanny in Somalia don't get the same chances.

I'm thinking you can probably see the holes in your own argument? It's fine to be proud of anything you achieve, irrelevant of where your born. It's strange to be proud of something you didn't achieve.

To be honest you are always going to find holes in an argument based on fannys.

[Jon MW]

And they're not better than your family or my family or anyone else's family. It's just so strange. Just random rich German nobody's. Likeable people though. The Queen, Charles, Harry and Kate my favourite's. It's like picking your favourite staff at the local Tesco.

To be honest the whole argument about the Royals being German always comes across as being incredibly racist.

It's something a lot of left, liberals sway to - but if a UKIPer was telling somebody born in Britain to go home because their Great Great (etc) Grandparents weren't born in Britain they'd be quite rightly called out as being truly horrible people.

Is it only okay to be prejudiced about rich people?

[kukushkin88]

And they're not better than your family or my family or anyone else's family. It's just so strange. Just random rich German nobody's. Likeable people though. The Queen, Charles, Harry and Kate my favourite's. It's like picking your favourite staff at the local Tesco.

To be honest the whole argument about the Royals being German always comes across as being incredibly racist.

It's something a lot of left, liberals sway to - but if a UKIPer was telling somebody born in Britain to go home because their Great Great (etc) Grandparents weren't born in Britain they'd be quite rightly called out as being truly horrible people.

Is it only okay to be prejudiced about rich people?

They are extremely welcome here as far as I'm concerned, I've got no interest in them going 'home'. As far as I'm concerned Britain is their home. It was kind of silly to mention their German heritage though, adds nothing of value to the discussion.

[MANTIS01]

Think I'm grateful more than proud to be British.

You've won the lottery of life to be born here. That doesn't fill me with pride, just fortune.

Good shout sir, We're lucky to be British, not proud.

The problem with this argument of course is that you guys will never be able to feel pride in anything. Whatever you achieve will be primarily down to luck, the start you got in life. When your children graduate from university it will all be down to where they were pushed out of the fanny. People who were pushed out of the fanny in Somalia don't get the same chances.

I'm thinking you can probably see the holes in your own argument? It's fine to be proud of anything you achieve, irrelevant of where you were born. It's strange to be proud of something you didn't achieve.

Can you see the bigger hole in your argument? That we are very lucky to be born in a country that you say is no better than any other country? I mean when our children graduate from university and we stand there proud of their personal achievement, let's not forget the royal family established many of our great universities and created the university culture. So kinda strange to be proud of what they did but not the infrastructure, opportunity or people that enabled them to do it. It's like Lewis Hamilton saying he's proud of being the world champion but not proud of his car or mercedez-benz as they are irrelevant.

[hhyftrftdr]

I've never understood this patriotic bullshit.

You were pushed out your mums fanny here. You had absolutely no say in it whatsoever. You could've been born anywhere in the world, its only circumstances that meant you were born here. Where do people get this misguided sense of patriotic 'duty' from?

It's the lottery of life and we are very fucking fortunate to be born into relative wealth. So yeah I'm grateful that I was born into a country where I learn the most important/used language as my mother tongue, and where I don't have to walk 5 miles for clean water everyday. But why would that make me proud?

If anything I see way more stuff (Britain First, Brexit, general twats) that makes me ashamed of where I'm from than proud.

"Pushed out your mums fanny"

Clearly not the opening gambit of one of those general twats you mention...

Proper eloquent, me.

[nirvana]

And they're not better than your family or my family or anyone else's family. It's just so strange. Just random rich German nobody's. Likeable people though. The Queen, Charles, Harry and Kate my favourite's. It's like picking your favourite staff at the local Tesco.

To be honest the whole argument about the Royals being German always comes across as being incredibly racist.

It's something a lot of left, liberals sway to - but if a UKIPer was telling somebody born in Britain to go home because their Great Great (etc) Grandparents weren't born in Britain they'd be quite rightly called out as being truly horrible people.

Is it only okay to be prejudiced about rich people?

They are extremely welcome here as far as I'm concerned, I've got no interest in them going 'home'. As far as I'm concerned Britain is their home. It was kind of silly to mention their German heritage though, adds nothing of value to the discussion.

Good response mate.

I find my feelings on patriotism really hard to explain. Obviously take most people's ticket that it is an accident of birth and I feel very fortunate to have been born a Brit.  I also feel a strong sense of affinity with Britishness as expressed in culture, sports, arts, language, character, attitudes and a host of other spheres and general attributes.

I'm keenly aware of our shortcomings and it's obviously right that people should focus on those areas of injustice etc that should be corrected to make this an even better place to live. At the same time I hate the negativity about us versus a.n other country - this tends to stir up some patriotism/desire to defend etc that is hard to explain other than to label it as pride - after all, we have all had some tiny part to play in making this country what it is and on balance, and in very broad terms, I think I do feel pride about what Britain is and represents.

[kukushkin88]

Think I'm grateful more than proud to be British.

You've won the lottery of life to be born here. That doesn't fill me with pride, just fortune.

Good shout sir, We're lucky to be British, not proud.

The problem with this argument of course is that you guys will never be able to feel pride in anything. Whatever you achieve will be primarily down to luck, the start you got in life. When your children graduate from university it will all be down to where they were pushed out of the fanny. People who were pushed out of the fanny in Somalia don't get the same chances.

I'm thinking you can probably see the holes in your own argument? It's fine to be proud of anything you achieve, irrelevant of where you were born. It's strange to be proud of something you didn't achieve.

Can you see the bigger hole in your argument? That we are very lucky to be born in a country that you say is no better than any other country? I mean when our children graduate from university and we stand there proud of their personal achievement, let's not forget the royal family established many of our great universities and created the university culture. So kinda strange to be proud of what they did but not the infrastructure, opportunity or people that enabled them to do it. It's like Lewis Hamilton saying he's proud of being the world champion but not proud of his car or mercedez-benz as they are irrelevant.

If you gave anyone a massively disproportionate amount of the money and resource, you'd expect a big contribution to society. The internet doesn't seem to agree that they established University culture, google returns no evidence for that idea. No arguments that Britain is largely a great country. There's good and bad though, especially historically, Britain has more than most to be ashamed of.

Feels like we're not doing much to enhance each other's understanding on this though and it's becoming a big derail on Tony's thread, so I'll leave it there for now.

[Karabiner]

And they're not better than your family or my family or anyone else's family. It's just so strange. Just random rich German nobody's. Likeable people though. The Queen, Charles, Harry and Kate my favourite's. It's like picking your favourite staff at the local Tesco.

To be honest the whole argument about the Royals being German always comes across as being incredibly racist.

It's something a lot of left, liberals sway to - but if a UKIPer was telling somebody born in Britain to go home because their Great Great (etc) Grandparents weren't born in Britain they'd be quite rightly called out as being truly horrible people.

Is it only okay to be prejudiced about rich people?

They are extremely welcome here as far as I'm concerned, I've got no interest in them going 'home'. As far as I'm concerned Britain is their home. It was kind of silly to mention their German heritage though, adds nothing of value to the discussion.

Isn't the Duke of Edinburgh a bubble?

[tikay]

Think I'm grateful more than proud to be British.

You've won the lottery of life to be born here. That doesn't fill me with pride, just fortune.

Good shout sir, We're lucky to be British, not proud.

The problem with this argument of course is that you guys will never be able to feel pride in anything. Whatever you achieve will be primarily down to luck, the start you got in life. When your children graduate from university it will all be down to where they were pushed out of the fanny. People who were pushed out of the fanny in Somalia don't get the same chances.

I'm thinking you can probably see the holes in your own argument? It's fine to be proud of anything you achieve, irrelevant of where you were born. It's strange to be proud of something you didn't achieve.

Can you see the bigger hole in your argument? That we are very lucky to be born in a country that you say is no better than any other country? I mean when our children graduate from university and we stand there proud of their personal achievement, let's not forget the royal family established many of our great universities and created the university culture. So kinda strange to be proud of what they did but not the infrastructure, opportunity or people that enabled them to do it. It's like Lewis Hamilton saying he's proud of being the world champion but not proud of his car or mercedez-benz as they are irrelevant.

If you gave anyone a massively disproportionate amount of the money and resource, you'd expect a big contribution to society. The internet doesn't seem to agree that they established University culture, google returns no evidence for that idea. No arguments that Britain is largely a great country. There's good and bad though, especially historically, Britain has more than most to be ashamed of.

Feels like we're not doing much to enhance each other's understanding on this though and it's becoming a big derail on Tony's thread, so I'll leave it there for now.

No no, please carry on, it's not a derail at all, the Diary has never been so busy.

I was asked to respond to the Royal love, & I will, but I'm letting the debate breathe before I do.

I have to say, the opening posts on the topic by MANTIS are achingly funny  and - in my opinion - worthy of POTY the year, if we had such a thing. We used to do a "blondes of the year" thing, but that all ended in tears, due to ego & a lack of SOH by a few, so MANTIS will have to manage without.  He should get a job as a Daily Mail columnist, he really should.

I have to pull him up on one thing though.

"MOFO Queen"?

You can't say that. I mean, you just can't. Well you can, but she can have your head chopped off if she feels so inclined, or is having a bad day.

MOFO Queen indeed, outrageous. Otherwise though, just too good.

[tikay]

How good was this, by Lord MANTIS?


Hey bro, any country worth it's salt had an empire. Think the Romans bowled about other lands handing out bunches of flowers and helping folk mow the lawn? Italy doesn't get half the shit we do for their historical murdering and plundering. If Britain wasn't top dog some other country would've been and they would've done the same thing. Fact is we were top dog and I think it's pretty cool a tiny nation like us was in fact boss of the world.

Oh and don't forget Henry VIII who broke Italian rule in this country. Without him we would've been wearing tan shoes with no socks and wazzing about everywhere on mopeds.

[4KSuited]

Interesting to see how this debate has escalated on the publishing of what are extraordinary Christmas Day viewing figures.

Before we had Netflix, Amazon and Sky's "69 channels of shit to choose from", Christmas Day would be crushed by the soaps and a special or two (all depending on the era). When you consider that Her Maj's slot was multi channel, the total on the day viewing of 7.6m is approx 1/10 of the pop, and very bad. In the old days, anything less than 15m for the top 3 would be considered a poor show.

Perhaps it's a good thing; families watching less TV & spending more time conversing with each other about the merits of the Royal Family and the true meaning of Christmas? Sadly I think it's just people spending more time staring at their mobiles, looking to see the latest Snapchat pics from their friends, or the funny vids uploaded onto Twitter/FB or wherever.

As for the Royals & The Empire, it's very confusing. There's a lot to be embarrassed & guilty about, if that's what eases your social & moral conscience. Equally there's a lot to be proud of, if that's what makes it easier to live with all the advantages that people living in deprived parts of the world would literally give their right arm to have. Neither approach is without its merits, but, on balance, I think I'd rather have a benign monarchy in charge of all that wealth and power rather than have it redistributed by the shambles we call Parliament. Ever thought about how we would transition to being a Republic?