Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[tikay]

if people want to deal everyone has to agree
if people want a deal it has to be done to the formula

that way people dont feel harrased into making an unfair deal

Yes, that's the idea of it. The harassment in deal-making is horrendous at times, & leads to so much ill-feeling. Which is why I almost always "sit out" in these things.

I never know what to do in these circumstances - invariably I have to ask someone for guidance. I'm not sure if it's the heat of the game but I can't see the wood for the trees in these situations. Did a chop at Luton a few weeks ago between the last 4 and wasn't sure if it was a good deal - went to ask Tikay who, in unison with everyone else at the cash table, told me it was a great deal and to get back there before they changed their minds.

Does anyone have a guide as to when/what to do - I know it's got a million variables - but any basic ideas?

How do you work it out?

It's not easy Tracey.

The first "big comp" I ever played - the £100 at Gala Notts - I Finalled in, & with 5 left, it all went off, the deal was being discussed, & there was shouting & hollering & threats, it was horrible, like kids in  playground arguing over sweets, & no logic. And everyone was using the same old arguments over & over, "it's only takes hand, & you could be busted", "why should I Deal?" sorta thing. So I looked for a friendly face, someone I could trust, & there was just one at the Table, I'd never spoken to him or met him before, but he was unlike the rest, was not getting all childish & shouting or threatening. I said "I'll go with whatever he decides". Eventually, a much better deal (for me) was agreed, as my new "friend" had spotted that I was being shafted. I offered my new friend £200 by way of a "thank you", (I got an extra £700) but he declined, but suggested we swap 10% in all future comps. That man was Thewy, & we've swapped ever since.

What to do? Best, perhaps, to seek advice from a "senior" & reliable member of the Cardroom.

The stupid arguments & hoohah when agreeing a deal sickens me. Normally placid folks get all silly, shout & holler, & argue for £20 or £30. (Will you take £7,980, as the winner? - NO, I WANT £8,000!). It shows folks in their real, true colours. At Gala Notts, if Dave Smith was in the deal, it used to almost come to blows, he'd be apoplectic with rage. And all cooey-wooey after he got his way.

Since my early days in poker, I've decided NEVER to argue over a Deal. "I will go with the table" is my stance, & I usually leave the table & go & get a drink while the kids & loudmouths do their impression of a negotiation. How they'd ever succeed in life or business when lacking the skill to discuss money sensibly intrigues me.....

There are a few folks who "organise" the table, & suggest the deal sensibly, with pencil & paper & common-sense. Paul Parker is one, Tony Adderley another. And there are some who dig their heels in & say "I NEVER DEAL". That, of course, is their right. Many of them end up skint though, as they can't usually manage their Bankroll. I've yet to meet a really good player who says "I never deal or chop". It usually makes sense to chop/deal, especially if the Blinds get silly, because it's luckfest time, though if one player has a massive chip lead, obviously he's entitled to stand firm. If it's down to sheer luck, it makes sense to chop or deal.

Thewy wanted to do a deal in Baden, & he did a deal Heads Up, leaving a bit to play for. By locking up most of the money, it enabled him to play more freely, & he went on to win the thing.

Aty Luton last week, Jeff Buff, Celtic, Adam Lawlor & one other agreed a chop in about 3 secinds, all smiles & handshakes, & they all walked away happy. They'd had some luck to Final, & they all knew it.

I hope that helps a bit.

[RED-DOG]

Im with you paul  I believe that if you move from one table to another you should always have to take your full stack with you.

If you double up at table 1 and an hour later get a transfer to table 2 but only sit down with your original stack.  30 mins later the guy who you double through now moves to your table. He doesnt have the chance to win his money back from you.

In vegas if you transfer from table to table you always have to take your full stack with you.

At dtd i think there are a few problems that need sorting such as table transfer and a few rules in the dealers game but as they openly admit they are learning and adapting as they go.

I tried to move with my full stack and the players at the new table said that it shouldn't be allowed because I was avoiding the "maximum sit down" rule and had the advantage of being able to bully the table. (not my opinion, just what was said)

[77dave]

Dont get me wrong tom im not saying anything was done wrong  or that there is anything wrong i what has happened

the best thing for me at DTD is the rules are crystal clear and the same for all

if that is the rule then that is the rule  i have no problem with that

[Tractor]

Dont get me wrong tom im not saying anything was done wrong  or that there is anything wrong i what has happened

the best thing for me at dtd is the rules are crystal clear and the same for all
if that is the rule then that is the rule  i have no problem with that

I think this is what sets DTD apart from the casino cardrooms at least you know where you stand, wether you agree or disagree the rules are there on there website etc.
If you then disagree you have the choice not to play.

[bobby1]

if people want to deal everyone has to agree
if people want a deal it has to be done to the formula

that way people dont feel harrased into making an unfair deal

Yes, that's the idea of it. The harassment in deal-making is horrendous at times, & leads to so much ill-feeling. Which is why I almost always "sit out" in these things.

I never know what to do in these circumstances - invariably I have to ask someone for guidance. I'm not sure if it's the heat of the game but I can't see the wood for the trees in these situations. Did a chop at Luton a few weeks ago between the last 4 and wasn't sure if it was a good deal - went to ask Tikay who, in unison with everyone else at the cash table, told me it was a great deal and to get back there before they changed their minds.

Does anyone have a guide as to when/what to do - I know it's got a million variables - but any basic ideas?

How do you work it out?

Im of the opinion that deals should only be discussed by the players still in the comp, this was the rule where I first started playing live and I like it.

[Dingdell]

if people want to deal everyone has to agree
if people want a deal it has to be done to the formula

that way people dont feel harrased into making an unfair deal

Yes, that's the idea of it. The harassment in deal-making is horrendous at times, & leads to so much ill-feeling. Which is why I almost always "sit out" in these things.

I never know what to do in these circumstances - invariably I have to ask someone for guidance. I'm not sure if it's the heat of the game but I can't see the wood for the trees in these situations. Did a chop at Luton a few weeks ago between the last 4 and wasn't sure if it was a good deal - went to ask Tikay who, in unison with everyone else at the cash table, told me it was a great deal and to get back there before they changed their minds.

Does anyone have a guide as to when/what to do - I know it's got a million variables - but any basic ideas?

How do you work it out?

Im of the opinion that deals should only be discussed by the players still in the comp, this was the rule where I first started playing live and I like it.

So what rules would you apply when agreeing to a deal then?

[bobby1]

if people want to deal everyone has to agree
if people want a deal it has to be done to the formula

that way people dont feel harrased into making an unfair deal

Yes, that's the idea of it. The harassment in deal-making is horrendous at times, & leads to so much ill-feeling. Which is why I almost always "sit out" in these things.

I never know what to do in these circumstances - invariably I have to ask someone for guidance. I'm not sure if it's the heat of the game but I can't see the wood for the trees in these situations. Did a chop at Luton a few weeks ago between the last 4 and wasn't sure if it was a good deal - went to ask Tikay who, in unison with everyone else at the cash table, told me it was a great deal and to get back there before they changed their minds.

Does anyone have a guide as to when/what to do - I know it's got a million variables - but any basic ideas?

How do you work it out?

Im of the opinion that deals should only be discussed by the players still in the comp, this was the rule where I first started playing live and I like it.

So what rules would you apply when agreeing to a deal then?

Hi Tracey, do you mean as a casino or as a player?

[NoflopsHomer]

if people want to deal everyone has to agree
if people want a deal it has to be done to the formula

that way people dont feel harrased into making an unfair deal

Yes, that's the idea of it. The harassment in deal-making is horrendous at times, & leads to so much ill-feeling. Which is why I almost always "sit out" in these things.

I never know what to do in these circumstances - invariably I have to ask someone for guidance. I'm not sure if it's the heat of the game but I can't see the wood for the trees in these situations. Did a chop at Luton a few weeks ago between the last 4 and wasn't sure if it was a good deal - went to ask Tikay who, in unison with everyone else at the cash table, told me it was a great deal and to get back there before they changed their minds.

Does anyone have a guide as to when/what to do - I know it's got a million variables - but any basic ideas?

How do you work it out?

It's not easy Tracey.

The first "big comp" I ever played - the £100 at Gala Notts - I Finalled in, & with 5 left, it all went off, the deal was being discussed, & there was shouting & hollering & threats, it was horrible, like kids in  playground arguing over sweets, & no logic. And everyone was using the same old arguments over & over, "it's only takes hand, & you could be busted", "why should I Deal?" sorta thing. So I looked for a friendly face, someone I could trust, & there was just one at the Table, I'd never spoken to him or met him before, but he was unlike the rest, was not getting all childish & shouting or threatening. I said "I'll go with whatever he decides". Eventually, a much better deal (for me) was agreed, as my new "friend" had spotted that I was being shafted. I offered my new friend £200 by way of a "thank you", (I got an extra £700) but he declined, but suggested we swap 10% in all future comps. That man was Thewy, & we've swapped ever since.

What to do? Best, perhaps, to seek advice from a "senior" & reliable member of the Cardroom.

The stupid arguments & hoohah when agreeing a deal sickens me. Normally placid folks get all silly, shout & holler, & argue for £20 or £30. (Will you take £7,980, as the winner? - NO, I WANT £8,000!). It shows folks in their real, true colours. At Gala Notts, if Dave Smith was in the deal, it used to almost come to blows, he'd be apoplectic with rage. And all cooey-wooey after he got his way.

Since my early days in poker, I've decided NEVER to argue over a Deal. "I will go with the table" is my stance, & I usually leave the table & go & get a drink while the kids & loudmouths do their impression of a negotiation. How they'd ever succeed in life or business when lacking the skill to discuss money sensibly intrigues me.....

There are a few folks who "organise" the table, & suggest the deal sensibly, with pencil & paper & common-sense. Paul Parker is one, Tony Adderley another. And there are some who dig their heels in & say "I NEVER DEAL". That, of course, is their right. Many of them end up skint though, as they can't usually manage their Bankroll. I've yet to meet a really good player who says "I never deal or chop". It usually makes sense to chop/deal, especially if the Blinds get silly, because it's luckfest time, though if one player has a massive chip lead, obviously he's entitled to stand firm. If it's down to sheer luck, it makes sense to chop or deal.

Thewy wanted to do a deal in Baden, & he did a deal Heads Up, leaving a bit to play for. By locking up most of the money, it enabled him to play more freely, & he went on to win the thing.

Aty Luton last week, Jeff Buff, Celtic, Adam Lawlor & one other agreed a chop in about 3 secinds, all smiles & handshakes, & they all walked away happy. They'd had some luck to Final, & they all knew it.

I hope that helps a bit.

Great post Tikay.

[Dingdell]

if people want to deal everyone has to agree
if people want a deal it has to be done to the formula

that way people dont feel harrased into making an unfair deal

Yes, that's the idea of it. The harassment in deal-making is horrendous at times, & leads to so much ill-feeling. Which is why I almost always "sit out" in these things.

I never know what to do in these circumstances - invariably I have to ask someone for guidance. I'm not sure if it's the heat of the game but I can't see the wood for the trees in these situations. Did a chop at Luton a few weeks ago between the last 4 and wasn't sure if it was a good deal - went to ask Tikay who, in unison with everyone else at the cash table, told me it was a great deal and to get back there before they changed their minds.

Does anyone have a guide as to when/what to do - I know it's got a million variables - but any basic ideas?

How do you work it out?

Im of the opinion that deals should only be discussed by the players still in the comp, this was the rule where I first started playing live and I like it.

So what rules would you apply when agreeing to a deal then?

Hi Tracey, do you mean as a casino or as a player?

As a player.

[Ironside]

rule of thumb the way DTD has ruled on deals is the fairest way

where everyone gets what the next person out would get and the rest of chips split on chip ratio

when doing a deal i will always work out i would get using the formula before i agree

in aberdeen any deal i have done normally takes less than a minute

walsall on the over hand took over 10 minutes

[byronkincaid]

if people want to deal everyone has to agree
if people want a deal it has to be done to the formula

that way people dont feel harrased into making an unfair deal

Yes, that's the idea of it. The harassment in deal-making is horrendous at times, & leads to so much ill-feeling. Which is why I almost always "sit out" in these things.

I never know what to do in these circumstances - invariably I have to ask someone for guidance. I'm not sure if it's the heat of the game but I can't see the wood for the trees in these situations. Did a chop at Luton a few weeks ago between the last 4 and wasn't sure if it was a good deal - went to ask Tikay who, in unison with everyone else at the cash table, told me it was a great deal and to get back there before they changed their minds.

Does anyone have a guide as to when/what to do - I know it's got a million variables - but any basic ideas?

How do you work it out?

Im of the opinion that deals should only be discussed by the players still in the comp, this was the rule where I first started playing live and I like it.

how is that policed? you're not allowed to talk to anyone not in the comp? what about if you are on a break?

[Bongo]

It also seems like a rule specifically designed to allow people to take advantage of others inexperience

[ifm]

I've yet to meet a really good player who says "I never deal or chop".

You once regaled Dave Colclough BECAUSE of his stance on deals!!

[bobby1]

if people want to deal everyone has to agree
if people want a deal it has to be done to the formula

that way people dont feel harrased into making an unfair deal

Yes, that's the idea of it. The harassment in deal-making is horrendous at times, & leads to so much ill-feeling. Which is why I almost always "sit out" in these things.

I never know what to do in these circumstances - invariably I have to ask someone for guidance. I'm not sure if it's the heat of the game but I can't see the wood for the trees in these situations. Did a chop at Luton a few weeks ago between the last 4 and wasn't sure if it was a good deal - went to ask Tikay who, in unison with everyone else at the cash table, told me it was a great deal and to get back there before they changed their minds.

Does anyone have a guide as to when/what to do - I know it's got a million variables - but any basic ideas?

How do you work it out?

Im of the opinion that deals should only be discussed by the players still in the comp, this was the rule where I first started playing live and I like it.

how is that policed? you're not allowed to talk to anyone not in the comp? what about if you are on a break?

I would say about 95% of deals are done as soon as someone is knocked out so players are at the table, Ive never done a deal on a break so but I dont suppose there is any way of stopping this. Apart from the fact that should anyone get advice from someone else they aremt playing within the rules of that comp

[bobby1]

It also seems like a rule specifically designed to allow people to take advantage of others inexperience

I dont understand your point Bongo, a rule is made for everyone to adhere to, the experience or inexperience of the players isnt a factor at all. Let me ask you this,why should an experienced player allow someone less experienced to go and talk a deal over with half the casino?