Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[gatso]

foul deck was noticed immediately so hand is invalid, pot should be reconstructed (lovely and easy in this case) and chips returned to players

not sure I believe the story though, there was a showdown so the hands were tabled. surely someone would've noticed before the board was dealt

[KarmaDope]

What do you think would have happened had that story gone the exact same way, but the Aces held?

[Claw75]

A true story I heard 2 nights ago.

The fascination was not the story itself, but the different "Rulings" everyone hypothesised.

It happened 18 months or 2 years ago, at a mainstream, Licensed, "Corporate Chain" Casino. It's not relevant which one.

First hand of a £300 Freezeout, at a Fessie.

One players is dealt   

The other player is dealt (and this is NOT a typo)...

 

All the money flies in pre-flop, the Tens (ahem) setted.

Suddenly, someone spots the guy has two Ace of Hearts.

Ace of Hearts guy now wants the hand nullified.

Your Ruling?

The hand, by the way, "stood". Think of the angle-shooting opportunities there!

Tonight, at Luton, I shall mostly be bringing along a spare pack of cards, in my pocket.

I'd let the hand stand too.   guy hadn't noticed.   guy has got no more (and, in fact, less) advantage once he's setted than he would have if   guy had   , and one presumes the same amount of money would have gone into the pot if that were the case.

[tikay]

foul deck was noticed immediately so hand is invalid, pot should be reconstructed (lovely and easy in this case) and chips returned to players

not sure I believe the story though, there was a showdown so the hands were tabled. surely someone would've noticed before the board was dealt

Yes, as it was the first hand, it was easy to "re-set" the Chip Stacks to starting levels.

It is odd that it was not noticed when the cards were Tabled, I agree, but I believe it did happen - numerous people had actually been there, on the day in question.

An oddity is that the Ruling included "but if the Board came 4 hearts, then the hand would NOT stand".

Go figure.

[gatso]

guy has got no more (and, in fact, less) advantage once he's setted than he would have if   guy had   , and one presumes the same amount of money would have gone into the pot if that were the case.

that's true but not really the point as it's not what happened

you could just as well say

guy has got no more (and, in fact, less) advantage once he's setted than he would have if   guy had   , and one presumes the same amount of money would have gone into the pot if that were the case.

what did actually happen was that the hand was played out with a foul deck so should not stand. we haven't started another hand and can exactly recreate the pot so that's what we need to do.

all imo of course

[Claw75]

An oddity is that the Ruling included "but if the Board came 4 hearts, then the hand would NOT stand".

Go figure.

The way the hand played out the fact that the guy had two aces of the same suit was of no consequence.  I suppose one could argue that if four hearts had come it would make no odds either, but if the guy was chasing a flush draw it might have been more reasonable to expect him to have checked his hand again after the flop was dealt and notice the error with the deck.  I think rulings like this have to be made on a situational basis and can't be set in stone.  As the hand played, I think it was fairest ruling.  It's really just speculation what the ruling would have been if four hearts had come and the TD may well have said that without actually thinking it through (perhaps thinking along the lines of if three hearts had come the flush could not stand).

[tikay]

Very similar a fessy you and I were both in Tony going back a few year. Two  were dealt.

Yup, that was Blackpool, & I remember getting a big hug from you that day!

Myself & Seat One BOTH held the queen of spades, and Flush, on a Board which included the A & K of Spades.

As we flipped our cards over, we both said "nuts"!

The problem was not that hand - we simply voided it, no argument - though one wag said I should get the pot, as my spade kicker was bigger, ffs!

The arguing strarted when a guy sat next to me went off on one, as he'd been beaten by a spade flush a few hands earlier - & it now transpired that the deck had 19 spades in it!

As ever, the unflappable Yogi (now at DTD) sorted it quietly, & without fuss.

Mr Moaner had a point, of course, but it's like moaning about yesterday's weather - what's the point?, it can't be corrected now, too bad, move on.

The Tank was on my Table in that Comp, too, wearing his floppy hat - the last time I recall seeing him at a circuit event. He owned me.

[tikay]

foul deck was noticed immediately so hand is invalid, pot should be reconstructed (lovely and easy in this case) and chips returned to players

not sure I believe the story though, there was a showdown so the hands were tabled. surely someone would've noticed before the board was dealt

Perhaps the money only went in after the River?

[Claw75]

foul deck was noticed immediately so hand is invalid, pot should be reconstructed (lovely and easy in this case) and chips returned to players

not sure I believe the story though, there was a showdown so the hands were tabled. surely someone would've noticed before the board was dealt

Perhaps the money only went in after the River?

I'd presumed it was at least post flop (after the set had been made) that the money went in.  If the money all went in pre and the hands were tabled before the flop was dealt, then I agree with Gatso.

[gatso]

Perhaps the money only went in after the River?

One players is dealt   

The other player is dealt (and this is NOT a typo)...

 

All the money flies in pre-flop, the Tens (ahem) setted.

[Claw75]

Perhaps the money only went in after the River?

One players is dealt   

The other player is dealt (and this is NOT a typo)...

 

All the money flies in pre-flop, the Tens (ahem) setted.

doh.  I agree with you then    if someone's prepared to get all their chips in pre flop with in the first hand of a festival event then they don't deserve to win the pot anyway!

[tikay]

Perhaps the money only went in after the River?

One players is dealt   

The other player is dealt (and this is NOT a typo)...

 

All the money flies in pre-flop, the Tens (ahem) setted.

Err, I erred.

Assume it went in post-river.

[LLevan]

foul deck was noticed immediately so hand is invalid, pot should be reconstructed (lovely and easy in this case) and chips returned to players

not sure I believe the story though, there was a showdown so the hands were tabled. surely someone would've noticed before the board was dealt

An oddity is that the Ruling included "but if the Board came 4 hearts, then the hand would NOT stand".

Go figure.

Surely if this is the case the person with aces is being penalised and presumably is playing with only 1 card. What would have happened if the person with 10 10 hadn't setted?

[Royal Flush]

Can't believe anyone believes this should stand! It's obviously a fouled deck so the hand can't stand.

[tikay]

Can't believe anyone believes this should stand! It's obviously a fouled deck so the hand can't stand.

The only sane Ruling posible.

Well you'd think so, anyway.