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Author Topic: a tikay tourney hand  (Read 6360 times)
TightEnd
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« on: August 03, 2007, 01:29:56 PM »

In a £75 freezeout there are four tables left

blinds are 200-400

Your hero is chipped up, 20,000 or so and has just moved to the table. hero is in form and capable of outplaying the table with that stack

He has 


EP raises to 1,200 with 8,000 back. Hero is unfamiliar with the player.

Flat called in MP with 6,000 back. Hero knows player a little, he's no mug.

Short stack pushes in for 2,900 on the button. Unknown player

Folded to hero

What should hero do here?


Hero and I (also on table) debated the options at length!!


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« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2007, 02:07:15 PM »

Pushing is certainly an option, as you'd be quite happy winning that pot as it stands.  For one thing it negates the problem of being out of position after the flop.

Question is do you put the EP raiser on a big pair or not?  Surely MP hasn't called with a big pair knowing that there might be other callers after him? 

Without the short-stack pushing for him remaining 2,900 - what would you be looking to do here, or does their shove make no difference to your decision?
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« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2007, 03:29:33 PM »

The all-in makes a huge difference to the dynamics of the hand.  No all-in allows you the luxury of a flat call and a cheap flop. The all-in forces you to either re-raise putting the early bettors to a decision or simply fold. A flat call will almost certainly be  re-raised. Should you push then you are pricng the EP raiser in and/or the MP caller. The all-in bet could be anything.  If the MP is any sort of player he has flat called in the hope of someone coming over the top so he could shove. Therefore he has a made hand such as QQ and up. If it was a big A he would have re-raised pre-flop. Anyone betting with 1010 in the BB is at best racing (unlikely) or at worst looking for a two outer. You have nothing in the pot, bar the BB, so why bet?

If the MP has flat called with anythinjg less, goodluck to him, but you will get a better spot later on, especially as you are still well stacked.

Let it go
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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2007, 03:32:11 PM »

The all-in makes a huge difference to the dynamics of the hand.  No all-in allows you the luxury of a flat call and a cheap flop. The all-in forces you to either re-raise putting the early bettors to a decision or simply fold. A flat call will almost certainly be  re-raised. Should you push then you are pricng the EP raiser in and/or the MP caller. The all-in bet could be anything.  If the MP is any sort of player he has flat called in the hope of someone coming over the top so he could shove. Therefore he has a made hand such as QQ and up. If it was a big A he would have re-raised pre-flop. Anyone betting with 1010 in the BB is at best racing (unlikely) or at worst looking for a two outer. You have nothing in the pot, bar the BB, so why bet?

If the MP has flat called with anythinjg less, goodluck to him, but you will get a better spot later on, especially as you are still well stacked.

Let it go

who is logged onto Compo's account?
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2007, 03:34:47 PM »

Someone who knows how to fold?


So hero can't flat call here and try to take a flop for fear of EP pushing?
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2007, 03:44:50 PM »

fold.

with a "no-mug" player raising early and an unknown player calling you really cant know where you are in this hand.

Yes you can reraise but i fear this will only tell you what you already know, that your TT is no good.

If you flat call i very much doubt your early postion raiser will just flat call and is most likely to reraise the 2900 all in.

Your chipped up and stand to lose 8000 chips in this hand, throw it away!
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 03:49:31 PM by KingPoker » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2007, 03:48:57 PM »




So hero can't flat call here and try to take a flop for fear of EP pushing?


No chance.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 03:51:09 PM by Compo » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2007, 03:51:24 PM »

So hero can't flat call here and try to take a flop for fear of EP pushing?

But your only really looking to hit 2 cards. If you do call and get to see a flop and it comes 9 high i still think your tens are behind anyway.

Plus this is potentially a 4 way pot, 3 live players with 1 all in player.

Yes you have implied odds i suppose to call the 2900, hope to see a flop, hope to hit and 10 and poentially bust out 3 players but as i have already said, i doubt very much you would gte to see the flop here anyway for 2900.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 03:55:13 PM by KingPoker » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2007, 03:54:28 PM »

fold.

with a "no-mug" player raising early and an unknown player calling you really cant know where you are in this hand.

Yes you can reraise but i fear this will only tell you what you already know, that your TT is no good.

If you flat call i very much doubt your early postion raiser will just flat call and is most likely to reraise the 2900 all in.

Your chipped up and stand to lose 8000 chips in this hand, throw it away!


indeed..you have to fold here.

but seeing as it's a TK tourney hand; "You've got Aces, push!"
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2007, 04:15:38 PM »

The only play that is really out of the question is the flat-call.

If you call here there will only be two outcomes. Either you will go to the flop 4-handed....not good for your 10's, or you will face a pre-flop back-raise...not good for your 10's. Furthermore if you call and hit a seemingly ideal raggy flop you are still behind to a bigger pair anyway. So the time to decide whether you want to commit to this hand is right here and now.

With the chips that you have folding is quite conservative...however it is certainly true that less risky spots will present themselves later on.

When playing tournament poker I often remind myself of one of my two favourite quotes....."Boats are safe when docked in the harbour but this isn't what boats were built for" or "If you want to live you cannot be afraid to die"

Yes there has been a lot of action before it gets to you but grabbing this hand by the balls and coming over the top with your big daddy stack in spite of the action is going to be uber-scary for the rest of the field. Unless someone is holding one of the big pairs you will be going heads-up against the shortie with oodles of dead money in the pot. If you are called by a better hand...you can still win...and if you do loose you still have a competitive 11k....which is more than anyone else in this hand had to begin with.

Pushing and loosing makes me feel a whole lot better than folding and watching a big pot pushed towards an unimproved 9-9. Although people are saying this is scary so avoid it, pushing over the top will be VERY SCARY for the other players and they may well avoid it with say J-J...every time you put chunks of chips in the middle it's scary business but you can't keep opting out of these situations. If it went raise, re-raise, all-in, I would fold then...but not here. There are only 4 poker hands ahead of you right now...you may get one of those hands to fold...you can't get knocked out...and you may win the pot anyway...PUSH!
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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2007, 04:28:32 PM »

Why not fold this hand, get to see what the early position raiser was rasing with as he is bound to call the 2900 and possibly even get to see what the MP caller has if he decides to call the 2900 and it gets checked down. You will have got to narraw down their range of hands which is much more valuable in the long term and done it without losing chips.

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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2007, 04:29:44 PM »


This is utterly fascinating, more so as I know how it played, & what I done. I'll say no more for now.

Except, as Boldie says, who's stolen Compo's Password? My word, his game has come on leaps & bounds in a short time. He played just about 24/7 in Vegas - he worked, or played (2 hours sleep seems enough for him) & he won over $13,000. I tell ya, he's got some amazing game. Weird game too, he's like something between Thewy & Roland. I've played a fair bit of cash with him during our Poker Week trips, and his game has improved out of all recognition. You do NOT want him on your table, trust me. Shocking dress sense, though. Another similarity between him, Thewy & Roland.
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2007, 05:08:02 PM »


This is utterly fascinating, more so as I know how it played, & what I done. I'll say no more for now.

Except, as Boldie says, who's stolen Compo's Password? My word, his game has come on leaps & bounds in a short time. He played just about 24/7 in Vegas - he worked, or played (2 hours sleep seems enough for him) & he won over $13,000. I tell ya, he's got some amazing game. Weird game too, he's like something between Thewy & Roland. I've played a fair bit of cash with him during our Poker Week trips, and his game has improved out of all recognition. You do NOT want him on your table, trust me. Shocking dress sense, though. Another similarity between him, Thewy & Roland.

This the same compo that was drunk as a skunk at Luton on Wednesday? LOL, that was funny.
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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2007, 05:23:00 PM »

Whilst playing last night I was faced with almost an identical situation. After similar action I looked down in the bb to see 10-10 and considered what to do. Every poker instinct I have was screaming at me to push.....but I have been running quite bad recently and this tends to tighten you up a bit. I feared bigger hands (the action suggested this was realistic) and I had plenty enough chips to fold and wait for a better spot.....so I passed.

The two players who had then proceeded to go all-in both showed A-K....and even before the third 10 hit the flop I was absolutely gutted with my fold. I felt tight and weak. And this is not how I want to be feeling at a poker table. If I had have pushed first I would have been called by two weaker hands and won a massive pot. Watching that pot being split between two Ace highs whilst my set of 10s lay quietly in the muck made me feel wretched. So much so that I had to go outside to give myself a good talking to (actually to have a cigarette) which is something I almost never do.

So what was this better situation I was waiting for?? I didn't pick up another playable hand over the next hour and a half. The poker gods always have a habit of doing this to me when I turn my nose up at a solid gamble. They think if I am not prepared to play poker then I deserve to just sit there and not play poker.

So what was this better situation?? Oh yes...how ironic...after my stack dwindled I pushed with 10-10 only to be called by one of the A-K guys I should have dispatched some hours ago with his unimpressive A-9. His rivered (naturally) Ace sent a bitter Mantis packing.

This will not happen again!

In this situation you have plenty enough chips to push and loose (if this actually happens at all) but folding a winning hand because you are scared you might be beat is the worst feeling in poker. Those "better opportunities may never actually present themselves.
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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2007, 05:25:36 PM »


This is utterly fascinating, more so as I know how it played, & what I done. I'll say no more for now.

Except, as Boldie says, who's stolen Compo's Password? My word, his game has come on leaps & bounds in a short time. He played just about 24/7 in Vegas - he worked, or played (2 hours sleep seems enough for him) & he won over $13,000. I tell ya, he's got some amazing game. Weird game too, he's like something between Thewy & Roland. I've played a fair bit of cash with him during our Poker Week trips, and his game has improved out of all recognition. You do NOT want him on your table, trust me. Shocking dress sense, though. Another similarity between him, Thewy & Roland.

This has the feeling of teeing me up for a caning next time we play!! Kind words tho.


This is utterly fascinating, more so as I know how it played, & what I done. I'll say no more for now.

Except, as Boldie says, who's stolen Compo's Password? My word, his game has come on leaps & bounds in a short time. He played just about 24/7 in Vegas - he worked, or played (2 hours sleep seems enough for him) & he won over $13,000. I tell ya, he's got some amazing game. Weird game too, he's like something between Thewy & Roland. I've played a fair bit of cash with him during our Poker Week trips, and his game has improved out of all recognition. You do NOT want him on your table, trust me. Shocking dress sense, though. Another similarity between him, Thewy & Roland.

This the same compo that was drunk as a skunk at Luton on Wednesday? LOL, that was funny.

Deffo not.
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