Cash Games - "Live Straddles"

[gatso]

still don't get it

sb now acts 1st to put in £3 to call or option to raise.

so SB acts 1st preflop?



I'm really confused

Yes, SB acts 1st preflop.

I get the feeling i play in some wild games as even the double straddle can come from any position.

i.e button can raise to £4 and UTG+2 can raise to £8. Chips are kept in front of players and action preflop starts position after last live straddle. UTG+3 acts first to fold/call £8/raise and round to button who only puts in £4 to call. SB calls £7, BB calls £6, UTG calls £8 etc. The last live straddle then has option to call/raise.

Most hands don't have a live straddle and as discussed starts more later in the night when the money has got deeper. Again difference in Dealers Choice rather than texas, but even in DC more than 1 live straddle starts to have -EV.

wow, thanks for the explanation, that is sheer lunacy.

sounds like something Flushy would come up with.

[tikay]

Also, for all those who say straddling is a good thing please consider that:

- Playing out of position is bad;
- Applying a straddle doubles the blinds and halves the effective stacks;

Why is halving the effective stack depth beneficial to you if you have a perceived skill edge? You may take people out of their financial comfort zone to some extent (but consider that they put the money in front of them in play and you can't change the total that is at risk). But you are also cutting the difficulty of their later street decisions in half because there is less money left to go in on the later streets. The less total blinds in play on a table the greater the effect of luck on the outcome of a session.

But thats just it with straddling - and Tikay is probably spot on. People who do it and demand it of others at a table are the same type of people who overestimate their edge and fail to notice when they have actually become the value at a table. By the sounds of it, players who straddle and defend the straddle generally believe themselves to be better than the opposition. But even if that is true, an insistence on playing big pots oop on a consistent basis and lowering the average stack to pot ratio for the entire table is a great way to level the playing field and give your supposed inferior opponents a helping hand.

But then conquering your ego and honestly assessing your abillity is something most players will never achieve. And misunderstanding what poker is fundamentally about and how to identify and capitalise on +EV spots is what sperates winners from losers in the longterm.

I will rarely straddle - and make a particular point of not doing so when the rest of the table is. Sure, it shows them that I'm not there to gamble. But its true, I'm there to win. And if the rest of the table is playing big pot poker and voluntarily juicing it up oop then there is no reason to fear. You'll be paid off by someone when the time comes.

LIVE CASH LOL.

Great Post - it says what I think, but was unable to explain.

[Royal Flush]

still don't get it

sb now acts 1st to put in £3 to call or option to raise.

so SB acts 1st preflop?



I'm really confused

Yes, SB acts 1st preflop.

I get the feeling i play in some wild games as even the double straddle can come from any position.

i.e button can raise to £4 and UTG+2 can raise to £8. Chips are kept in front of players and action preflop starts position after last live straddle. UTG+3 acts first to fold/call £8/raise and round to button who only puts in £4 to call. SB calls £7, BB calls £6, UTG calls £8 etc. The last live straddle then has option to call/raise.

Most hands don't have a live straddle and as discussed starts more later in the night when the money has got deeper. Again difference in Dealers Choice rather than texas, but even in DC more than 1 live straddle starts to have -EV.

wow, thanks for the explanation, that is sheer lunacy.

sounds like something Flushy would come up with.

It is good fun, and very common in Northern cardrooms.

[RichEO]

They were doing it in Manchester after APAT last month.

Didn't like it really - it changes your position at the table and that ain't fair, especially as it's usually the same group of people at one end of the table doing it

[RichEO]

I'm very happy for someone to pay £64 for the privelige of not seeing their hole cards while I look at mine for free.

Yes, a nice situation to have.

Now consider if you are UTG and know that you have straddlers and re-straddlers after you. Is it now worth putting in £4 for them to go crazy? Lets say your pretty sure it will go 8-16-32

Note: I don't straddle.

[LuckyLloyd]

I'm very happy for someone to pay £64 for the privelige of not seeing their hole cards while I look at mine for free.

Yes, a nice situation to have.

Now consider if you are UTG and know that you have straddlers and re-straddlers after you. Is it now worth putting in £4 for them to go crazy? Lets say your pretty sure it will go 8-16-32

Note: I don't straddle.

If you could be sure it goes 8 - 16 - 32 every time then yes, it is probably plus EV.

[RichEO]

I'm very happy for someone to pay £64 for the privelige of not seeing their hole cards while I look at mine for free.

Yes, a nice situation to have.

Now consider if you are UTG and know that you have straddlers and re-straddlers after you. Is it now worth putting in £4 for them to go crazy? Lets say your pretty sure it will go 8-16-32

Note: I don't straddle.

If you could be sure it goes 8 - 16 - 32 every time then yes, it is probably plus EV.

As we are agreed that straddling is bad and -EV except for a few situations. Isn't it then bad and -EV that DTD don't allow it? Surely if it's -EV for whoever does it (and a few of us stay away) then it's an edge we have lost out on.

Has anyone brought up straddling in NL vs PL - there is a bit less point to a straddle in NL, which is my view makes it pretty much completely pointless in NL.

[77dave]

I just got back from Vegas and i discovered this gem in the $1-$3 nlh game in Treasure Island.

As its a no limit game under the gun can straddle for any amount they choose. So quite often the tame 1-3 game became a 1-3-10 game and even with 1 guy it became a 1-3-20 game.

At 1 point we were short handed and they we lost more players to leave me playing heads-up. Im the bb so i post my $3 then as the sb on the button he chooses to post $10.  I ask for a ruling to clarify the situation and im informed that hu the button can straddle for as much as he chooses predeal.

A very strange and rare situation but after the hand i myself now had to post $10 as a straddle otherwise i was giving away a huge edge HU on the button.

[77dave]

Played my first session in Vegas yesterday a couple of people straddled but know of them ever raised there own straddle and most past if someone raised theres.

i didnt straddle once and dont think i will be in the future there is so much money on offer for free in these games that there is no need to go out looking for it.