Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[doogan]

as someone who comes across as a major animal lover and who wants to portray the best of the people of his community I was looking for your thoughts on firstly the story and the way the people in the video seem to be treating the horses.

http://www.thesun.co.UK/sol/homepage/news/3122157/Gipsy-rider-havoc-in-pub.html

i don't know you and only have been told of you through phatomch, for whats its worth i have read your thread and don't think you or your family come across as the stereotypical Gypsy that the papers like to portray.

[RED-DOG]

as someone who comes across as a major animal lover and who wants to portray the best of the people of his community I was looking for your thoughts on firstly the story and the way the people in the video seem to be treating the horses.

http://www.thesun.co.UK/sol/homepage/news/3122157/Gipsy-rider-havoc-in-pub.html

i don't know you and only have been told of you through phatomch, for whats its worth i have read your thread and don't think you or your family come across as the stereotypical Gypsy that the papers like to portray.

Didn't see much in the way of cruelty. (Although I'm not defending anyone here) Apart from that,  I, like you, only have the Sun's version of events.

Would it be fair if I said "What's your thoughts on this behaviour by your people?"

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/justice/animal_cruelty/71555/Shocking-cruelty-cases.html

[doogan]

oh im not denying that any man can do horrid things, it was just that I thought the kicking at horse's faces and rear sections, pulling the foal backwards by its tail came across as something i would never do, but if that is accepted treatment of animals in a community that regulaly uses them than thats fine with me. As i said I was just looking for your thoughts.

with the aid of the net we can see anything we want now, we can see buddhist monks being violent so you cant say anyone, any race or nation is better or worse than another

[kukushkin88]

as someone who comes across as a major animal lover and who wants to portray the best of the people of his community I was looking for your thoughts on firstly the story and the way the people in the video seem to be treating the horses.

http://www.thesun.co.UK/sol/homepage/news/3122157/Gipsy-rider-havoc-in-pub.html

i don't know you and only have been told of you through phatomch, for whats its worth i have read your thread and don't think you or your family come across as the stereotypical Gypsy that the papers like to portray.

I wouldn't recommend forming any opinion on any subject based on information supplied by the tabloid press.

[RED-DOG]

oh im not denying that any man can do horrid things, it was just that I thought the kicking at horse's faces and rear sections, pulling the foal backwards by its tail came across as something i would never do, but if that is accepted treatment of animals in a community that regulaly uses them than thats fine with me. As i said I was just looking for your thoughts.

with the aid of the net we can any thing we want now, we can see buddhist monks being violent so you cant say anyone, any race or nation is better or worse than another

I need to explain a little about this, but I have to go out right now, I'll do it when I get back.

Sorry if I sounded blunt, I'm on a short fuse today.

[doogan]

who said i had formed a opinion? im not baiting. For whats its worth ive had very few run ins with the traveling community and none have been bad

[doogan]

oh im not denying that any man can do horrid things, it was just that I thought the kicking at horse's faces and rear sections, pulling the foal backwards by its tail came across as something i would never do, but if that is accepted treatment of animals in a community that regulaly uses them than thats fine with me. As i said I was just looking for your thoughts.

with the aid of the net we can any thing we want now, we can see buddhist monks being violent so you cant say anyone, any race or nation is better or worse than another

I need to explain a little about this, but I have to go out right now, I'll do it when I get back.

Sorry if I sounded blunt, I'm on a short fuse today.


no worries we all have those days, I have genuinly enjoyed reading your diary and as I said you and yours come across as very nice people who seem to respected not only in your own comunity but that of the poker world (although im not sure thats a compliment)

[KarmaDope]

Would it not be better to try to educate him? I just think that even if the authorities do anything it's unlikely to change his behaviour, only re-enforce it but an attempt to engage him and show him he's wrong could make a positive difference.

That happens to be my view, too, Paul. In fact, I doubt he means, or believes, what he's written. Kids just Post stuff without thinking sometimes. You need to sort the wheat from the chaff, the hardcore guys need reporting, yeah, but most if it is just kids doing dumbspeak, trying to look big.

Social Media platforms empower us all - including youngsters who would not otherwise have a voice, & so the power goes to their head. Or fingertips.

I know you guys are right, but my emotions get the better of me sometimes.


.



http://www.grtleeds.co.uk/information/delaney.html

I was speaking to Johnny's mother only a few days ago, she was in floods of tears.

I lived in Ellesmere Port at the time and the "boys" involved are roughly my age. Most people were disgusted with what happened - especially the amateur boxer who was found guilty. Sadly, the attitude in the area to the Gypsies wasn't nice. I worked in a WHSmith's on Cheshire Oaks, and we would often have Gypsy children in the shops. You wouldn't think they were Gypsies - until they opened their mouths. They were ridiculously foul mouthed even for the Port, and this was possibly what contributed to the reputation the Gypsy children have.

Don't get me wrong, they could be really nice as well in their actions. The manager of my store was racist and hated them, so he would always follow them round and try and justify it by claiming they were "thieving little shits"...yet funnily enough there were no thefts and no trouble.

I guess what I'm trying to say, clumsily, is that the Gypsy kids knew they had the reputation, and played up to it to the local kids even though it was undeserved. The 2 boys involved though went way too far, and nobody deserved to die that day. I just hope, as well as you, that people learn from it.

[doogan]

i may of mis-read this or you just havnt written it well but what do you mean by the "you wouldnt know they where Gypsies until they opened their mouths"

[KarmaDope]

i may of mis-read this or you just havnt written it well but what do you mean by the "you wouldnt know they where Gypsies until they opened their mouths"

Going with the I haven't written it well lol - what I mean is that as a member of staff, they were just teenagers.  I really haven't written it well! It was more to emphasise the language, they were incredibly foul mouthed - a lot more than you would expect from a teenager. Every other word was effing this or that, they'd turn to their friends and call them w***er, d**khead and other derogatory names. Polite to the staff though, would be like talking to a different person.

Other members of staff claimed they could "pick out a Gypsy" by the way they looked. I'm pretty sure Tom will understand what I mean. I couldn't, they were normal teenagers out shopping.

[Laxie]

O
M
G

And breathe.  You've no idea how glad I am to have been missing all day.  Can't even begin to imagine how you must have felt.  xx

[RED-DOG]

oh im not denying that any man can do horrid things, it was just that I thought the kicking at horse's faces and rear sections, pulling the foal backwards by its tail came across as something i would never do, but if that is accepted treatment of animals in a community that regulaly uses them than thats fine with me. As i said I was just looking for your thoughts.

with the aid of the net we can any thing we want now, we can see buddhist monks being violent so you cant say anyone, any race or nation is better or worse than another

I need to explain a little about this, but I have to go out right now, I'll do it when I get back.

Sorry if I sounded blunt, I'm on a short fuse today.

OK. First of all, let me explain what's going on here, I've seen it countless times. There is obviously quite a gathering of horsemen, (Note, no one looks scared or jumps out of the way when the horses are brought inside) and the bar is being used as an impromptu display/sales ring.

Watch the video carefully, most of the "kicks" don't make contact, or if they do, it's just a gentle tap. None of the horses flinch.

The real point of the "Kicking" is to show how calm and steady the horses are. If the horses were being hurt, or were scared, they would be jumping about all over the place.

The foal has his tail pulled because he is about to leave the bar via the wrong exit. note how skilfully the tail puller redirects him.

These are proper horsemen who love and value their horses. believe me they're not inflicting pain, and the horses aren't frightened.

This is by the by, but the fact is, you could give a horse a proper kick and it would barely feel it. Watch how a jockey uses his crop sometimes, if he were hitting you, he would flay your skin off, but the horse is unmarked and unharmed.

[doogan]

this is exactly the reason why i asked, ask a simple question and get a frank honest answer and explained the way you did yes i would have to agree that although it may seem vicious on video it wont do any harm to the horses.

thanks

ps. try and post more story's please

[RED-DOG]

Watch what the policeman does to the horse at the end of this clip.

[RED-DOG]

this is exactly the reason why i asked, ask a simple question and get a frank honest answer and explained the way you did yes i would have to agree that although it may seem vicious on video it wont do any harm to the horses.

thanks

ps. try and post more story's please

Like I said, I'm sorry if I was a bit short, but I see so many examples of things being twisted or misrepresented.

If a horse can become desensitised, I wonder why I can't?